Dedicated to Deposits: Deals, Data, and Discussion
About Ken Tumin About Ken Tumin - Founder and Editor

Ken Tumin founded the Bank Deals Blog in 2005 and has been passionately covering the best deposit deals ever since. He is frequently referenced by The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and other publications as a top expert, but he is first and foremost a fellow deal seeker and member of the wonderful community of savers that frequents DepositAccounts.

Featured 2-Year CD Rates

Popular Posts

Featured Accounts

Resolution on My Wells Fargo CD Beneficiary Problem

POSTED ON BY

Wells Fargo Bank

I'm happy to report that Wells Fargo has changed their minds. I received a letter on Thursday from the Wells Fargo correspondence specialist informing me that Wells Fargo's legal department has changed their decision. Here's an excerpt:

Upon further review of the documentation you provided, our Legal Department has confirmed the POD/ROS Designation form for the Certificate of Deposit (CD) accounts signed by your father can be used to designate you as the beneficiary of CD account ending in ****.

The letter was dated November 10th, so it appears the decision was made before I described my Wells Fargo problem last Sunday.

I decided to hold off on calling this a victory until I actually received the cashier's check from Wells Fargo. I went to my local Wells Fargo branch this morning with the letter, a copy of the CD documents and the death certificate. After 70 minutes, I walked out with the cashier's check for the full amount of my dad's CD (principal and all of the accrued interest).

Recap of the Problem and the Resolution

Here's a quick recap of the problem as I described last Sunday. I was the beneficiary of a Wells Fargo CD that my dad opened in 2010. After my dad passed away in March, I tried to access the CD. I had the document that the Wells Fargo banker had given to my dad which showed me as the beneficiary of this CD. With my ID and my dad's death certificate, I should have been able to close the CD without any penalty and receive a check. However, Wells Fargo's system did not show anyone as the beneficiary on this CD, and they claimed that the document showing me as the beneficiary was invalid. The Wells Fargo banker who opened the CD had apparently used the wrong form.

To access this CD without a beneficiary, we would have to go through the court. According to my attorney this would cost at least $250.

In July I filed a complaint with Wells Fargo's regulator, the Office of the Comptroller of Currency (OCC). The OCC contacted Wells Fargo, and a Wells Fargo correspondence specialist mailed me a letter in August asking for the CD information and documentation. I mailed back a copy of the documents, and waited. In late August I received another letter from Wells Fargo. The correspondence specialist informed me that the CD "document is not valid" and that I could not be designated as the beneficiary. This was the same response I received from the branch manager. I immediately mailed a letter to the OCC stating that I disagreed with the bank's decision. I stressed that it was a Wells Fargo banker who gave the supposed invalid documentation to my dad.

After sending my second letter, I waited. I called the OCC in October and November to check on the status. As I mentioned in my November 13th article, I was becoming less optimistic. After my experience with the NCUA and the Fort Knox CD case, I was thinking that regulators always side with the institutions.

On November 17th, I received my third letter from the Wells Fargo correspondence specialist, and as mentioned above, it was good news. Wells Fargo's legal department changed their minds. The document that my dad received can be used as proof that I am the beneficiary of the CD.

Another Trip to the Wells Fargo Branch

As I mentioned above, I didn't want to call this a victory until I actually had the check in my hand. This morning I went to my local Wells Fargo branch with the letter, a copy of the CD documents and the death certificate. It only took 5 minutes after I entered the branch lobby for a banker to help me, but it then took another 65 minutes before I received the check.

First, the banker had to discuss this issue with the branch manager, and then she had to confirm the letter with the legal department. Just like an outside customer, she was on hold for a while trying to reach the right person.

Once the Wells Fargo banker verified the letter, she then had to override the CD settings in their system. Due to Wells Fargo's mistake, no one was listed as the beneficiary of this CD. If she closed out the CD without this override, the early withdrawal penalty would be applied and the check would be paid to my dad. After about 25 minutes, she was able to override the system and close out the CD without a penalty. That wasn't the end.

She gave me some type of receipt. I then had to wait in line for a teller to exchange the receipt for the cashiers check. That took another 10 minutes.

So after 70 minutes of time at the branch, I finally received the check.

While waiting, I took some time to chat with the branch manager (He was a new manager who wasn't around when I first tried to access the CD.) I asked him how a banker could have used the wrong form in this case. He said that the banker probably just printed out the wrong form.

One more interesting thing came out of my discussion with the branch manager. When he was asking about what bank I used, I told him that a local credit union is my primary "bank". He then admitted to me that he is also a member of that same credit union. As you might expect, he was discreet in this admission.

Lessons Learned

As I mentioned on Sunday, always double check the beneficiary listings on your bank accounts. Make sure it shows up in the bank's system. It's a lot easier and less costly for your heirs when banks accounts have beneficiaries.

A new lesson from this is that regulators can be useful to consumers. My case is proof that regulators do side with consumers at least sometimes. As I mentioned above, the last letter was mailed to me before my first post on this issue. So it didn't influence Wells Fargo's decision. It seems reasonable to conclude that the OCC was the main factor causing Wells Fargo to change their minds.

If you have been unable to resolve a dispute with a bank or credit union, you should consider filing a complaint to the institution's regulator. I described how to find the appropriate regulator in my post How to File a Complaint Against Your Bank or Credit Union. As my experience has shown, it can be a long process, but it can be worthwhile.

It will be quicker if you can find the right person at the bank that can resolve the issue. As my case shows, it's often not the branch manager. One of the comments in my first post appeared to have been left by a Wells Fargo representative. He provided the email address socialmedia@wellsfargo.com and claimed to have escalated the issue. This contact may be useful for others. Also, a reader in my last post provided this link to a Consumerist article listing the contact information of several Wells Fargo executives.

Final Thoughts

Thanks to all who provided condolences on my dad's passing and who provided suggestions in my first post on this problem. It's very much appreciated.

I have one more post to write on the CD issues that I experienced after my dad's death. These issues don't involve problems like this Wells Fargo case, but they do involve some interesting issues. I plan to have this post written in the next week.


  Tags: Wells Fargo Bank

Related Posts

Comments
Comment #1 by Anonymous posted on
Anonymous
Glad to hear this worked out for you in the end.

3
Comment #2 by Paoli (anonymous) posted on
Paoli
Congrats on your success with Wells Fargo, Ken!  Determination goes a long way in winning in any kind of a financial battle.  Gives the rest of us the incentive to follow your lead if we are ever in the same type postition with a bank.

5
Comment #3 by Anonymous posted on
Anonymous
I wonder why you did not leave the money at Wells Fargo.  You can get a ultra high C.D. rate of .90% if you lock it in for 5 years.

13
Comment #4 by Anonymous posted on
Anonymous
You certainly do have patience!  Writing about issues and how they are resolved in blogs such as this serve both to help other savers by sharing your experiences as well as informing any bankers out there also reading the blogs that some consumers will be persistent in their efforts to obtain what is rightfully theirs. 

There is so much more to investing then blindly opening a certificate of deposit at a financial institution.  Knowing the dos and the don'ts is extremely important and we are all learning lessons from reading about others' experiences.

Your efforts are much appreciated!

 

8
Comment #5 by WonderingWoman (anonymous) posted on
WonderingWoman
Thank you for sharing your experience.  Taking your advice several months ago I went through all my CDs and any that did not list the PODs on the certificate page got a call with a request for it to be added.   Some of them argued with me that it wasn't necessary as THEY could see it in their files even though I couldn't.  I persisted and finally got paperwork from all of them.  Your story is further proof that insisting on the proper documentation is important.

4
Comment #6 by tightwad posted on
tightwad
Great to hear some good news here for a change...Glad it worked out for you!

3
Comment #7 by Aleks (anonymous) posted on
Aleks
I like your experience! Thank You very much!

2
Comment #8 by mac92264 posted on
mac92264
As with previous posters, I applaud your persistence and patience to secure what's rightfully yours.

One aspect of the case stil puzzles me: did you ever get a written response from OCC on the matter, or is it typical for them to only correspond with the bank?

What you went through with WF is what I typically face with Bank of America; the branch managers are shuffled and shuttled like interns.  Frequently, it's difficult to get past bad answers from the bank manager without legal representation..

3
Comment #9 by me1004 posted on
me1004
Great! 

Still, while the complaint to OCC got things investigated by the bank, I think you give too much credit to OCC. I know from experience that all they did was pass your complaint over to Wells Fargo and ask for a response. Wells Fargo then finally decided to look into the matter, rather than just look up which states that form was designed for, as is all I believe they did previously.

You are lucky Wells Fargo decided to yield. Had they not, saying the form was invalid in Florida, I do expect the OCC would have simply let it go at that and sent you a letter that the case was closed on that basis, done no further investigation of their own. I do not believe the OCC would have questioned Wells Fargo's stance.

I am curious on what legal basis Wells Fargo changed it mind -- but I suppose we will never know. Might it have been that they decided the Virginia-North Carolina form also happened to meet the Florida requirements, so was valid? Or, maybe they had some other legal basis, possibly regarding the clear intent of your father. Or???

3
Comment #10 by Doug (anonymous) posted on
Doug
Ken,

Glad to hear this was resolved to your satisfaction.

Doug

2
Comment #11 by Jeanne (anonymous) posted on
Jeanne
Since it would not take a full week for a letter to get to you, I believe that Wells Fargo caved after your post on 11/13, and then predated their letter to 11/10. Or was the envelope also postmarked 11/10 and you don't check your mail regularly?

 

1
Comment #14 by Anonymous posted on
Anonymous
Ken, my condolences on the death of your father.  Mine died a few years ago, and it was a terrible loss.  But, congratulations on having successfully dealth with the SOBs at Wells Fargo. 

The best thing you can do with your father's money, especially if you still have children, is NOT to put it back into a long term CD.  Just take this cash and buy some physical gold with it.  Banks are incredibly capricious, and seem to believe that your money is theirs.  They gamble with it on highly risky derivatives products that could easily bankrupt them, without new bailouts from the taxpayers and from dollar-denominated savers.

Regulators, unfortunately, are so corrupt that they cannot be trusted.  Nothing can be trusted, in fact, other than hard metal. Better than gold even, buy some platinum, since its price is depressed compared to gold, and it will do even better in the hyperinflation we will start to see in late 2012/2013.

Stash your PMs somewhere after buying them.  Write a Will to let your descendents know where it is, and then forget about it.  Over the very long term, gold (and platinum and silver) has always outperformed a bank account and this will be more true in the upcoming "Chinese Century".  Demand for all tangible goods will be far greater than before, with 1.3 billion newly rich people who want cars, houses, and all the other things Americans have always had.

The supply of precious metals is already insufficient to meet demand at current prices. But, even before China and India became players in the demand pictures, precious metals always outperformed stocks and bonds over the long haul, although it is in the financial interest of Wall Street to deny this fact. 

The key is to forget about putting your money in CDs.  Use the highest yielding FDIC insured liquid bank deposits, and only use them for paying current expenses and waiting for the gold cartel to do a hit on precious metals prices.  Like the day before yesterday.  The cartel hit PMs because COMEX options expiration was yesterday, and they needed to reduce the price to make sure that they didn't need to pay off on the derivatives contracts.  These events should be viewed as "gifts" and PMs should be bought, at such times, with the liquid cash you've saved in the bank.

Precious metals will beat saving in endlessly debased US dollar.  You will never get wiped out because, unlike the paper Federal Reserve Note, gold is not a Ponzi scheme in which one form of debt (Federal Reserve Notes) backs another (treasuries).  The dollar is now worth only 1.6% of its 1913 value, in terms of gold.  That was when the corrupt Federal Reserve was chartered, and we went off the gold specie standard, to the detriment of America ever since.  Since then, it has been an endless parade of inflationary monetary policy that makes paper money not worth the paper it is printed on.

1
Comment #15 by Lisa J (anonymous) posted on
Lisa J
Thank you for posting such a detailed account. My mother passed away in May 2012 and I am hoping WF will cooperate with me as I am trying to use an small estate affadavit to close one of her accounts. Your posting was very helpful to continue to be persistent!

1
Comment #16 by kathy b (anonymous) posted on
kathy b
I am having a hard time even getting inofrmation on the procedure to close an account of my deceaed Uncle which lists three seperate people as beneficiaries.   I have been to a total of 3 Wells Fargo branches and called several numbers and still do not know what they require i have taken the death certificate and have gotten 3 different stories at all three banks and still do not know what it takes to close this account.  i am going to print out your entire story and see if i can get any answers.

1
Comment #17 by Anonymous posted on
Anonymous
Thank you for sharing the story of your ordeal with Wells Fargo. I am currently undergoing a similar struggle in attempting to close a Wells Fargo IRA belonging to my late father. Attempting to deal with Wells Fargo is an absolute nightmare. Time after time I have been put on hold, transferred to one service representative after another, told blatant lies, had forms rejected without any given notice, endured seemingly endless demands for additional, previously unmentioned paperwork, etc.

Based upon my own experiences and those of others, I am convinced that Wells Fargo's standard operating procedure is to stonewall, prevaricate, and do everytthing possible to hold on to all monies belonging to elderly and recently deceased clients. Anyone who is thinking about opening any sort of account with Wells Fargo should seriously reconsider.

2