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Sorry Boomers, ACA Won’t Cover Long-Term Care

Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 7:29 AM
"Nearly three-quarters (72%) of “affluent baby boomers” believe the Affordable Care Act will pay much of their long-term heath care needs in retirement and are “not adequately planning” for long-term care costs or “not planning at all, according to data from Nationwide Insurance."


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8
ShorebreakShorebreak2,602 posts since
Apr 6, 2010
Rep Points: 14,082
1. Tuesday, March 4, 2014 - 8:05 PM
I was listening to a call-in investment advice show this weekend and a man was asking for advice: He had over $2 million in investments and wanted to know how to "position" them in case he ended up in a nursing home.Radio Person: "Position" them?Caller: You know, so they'll be "safe" and Medicaid will kick in and pay for the nursing home.I don't know about the baby boomers knowledge of ACA but I've heard more than once about people hiding assets so the government will pick up the costs. 
1
carlycarly26 posts since
Sep 2, 2011
Rep Points: 88
2. Wednesday, March 5, 2014 - 8:22 AM
Laws have changed in the last few years with the welfare reform bill of the late 90's. Unless states changed their laws the federal gov threatened to withhold Medicaid funds to them. The only way to avoid paying for nursing home care is not to have any assets. Many nursing homes now require families to pay for it when the patients money is gone. There also is a 5 year look back period that you sign where you and or your family can be prosecuted for lying under penalty of the law. We all should pay our own bills. 
1
Ally6770Ally6770909 posts since
Jan 16, 2010
Rep Points: 2,640
3. Wednesday, March 5, 2014 - 10:42 AM
If the caller is married steps can be taken through the spousal impoverishment law signed in 1988 so his spouse living at home will not live in poverty the rest of her life. If the caller is single, he is obligated to pay by law whatever debts he incurs until his assets are depleted to be eligible for Medicaid.  Laws in each state are different and there are limits (certainly well below 2 million) of what can be set aside for the spouse to live on so best to consult with an eldercare lawyer from the state he resides in.
2
FARFAR105 posts since
Feb 26, 2013
Rep Points: 379
4. Thursday, March 6, 2014 - 2:34 PM
 A1993 federal law requires states to recover Medicaid costs for long-term care from the estates of deceased Medicaid beneficiaries over the age of 55. I think Michigan was the last to pass this law in 2011 and took effect with some clawback features in 2012 or 2013.  
1
Ally6770Ally6770909 posts since
Jan 16, 2010
Rep Points: 2,640
5. Thursday, March 6, 2014 - 3:09 PM
#4  I think the key word here is the "estates" of deceased Medicaid beneficiaries.  Most deceased Medicaid beneficiaries would probably have had all their assets (if any) taken away to repay for any Medicaid care so you can't get blood out of a turnip.  I don't know any people  who are or were on Medicaid who have/had "estates".  If they were allowed to keep any of it, why do you think there are people looking to protect "some" of their estates in case they have to ever need Medicaid.  The Eldercare lawyers make a ton of money off of trying to help these people. 
1
paoli2paoli21,365 posts since
Aug 10, 2011
Rep Points: 5,983
6. Thursday, March 6, 2014 - 3:28 PM
Spouses are allowed to stay in the home but most times the home has joint ownership. A lien is put on the home and anything that belongs jointly. Some states will take the car if in the husbands name. There  also is  5 year look back period where anything given or disbursed to someone, the couple can be made to be get it back  or the spouse has to pay it before Medicaid can start. I know of a daughter that had to pay back $15,000 that her mother had given her 3 years earlier to help her out when she lost her job. She had to get a HE loan to pay it back and give it to the nursing home before the mother qualified for Medicaid.  Some states have laws state that the all of the income of the person in the nursing home (SS, pensions, IRA's etc) goes to the nursing home, before what is left is divided. If you have joint accounts 1/2 of that money is taken in some states. KNOW YOUR states laws. 
There was a son in Pa who did not read the papers when his father was put in a nursing home. He signed the papers, and after the assets of his father were used up the son is responsible for nearly $75,000. Some nursing homes will  not admit a patient without their papers being signed by family members. Always read what you sign and get a lawyer. 
Also all nursing home do not accept Medicaid. Another consideration. But the one in Pa did accept Medicaid but somehow the courts said the son was responsible to pay medicaid or the nursing home back. Not sure which one it was. 
1
Ally6770Ally6770909 posts since
Jan 16, 2010
Rep Points: 2,640
7. Thursday, March 6, 2014 - 3:38 PM
#6  You are saying the same thing I posted but in other ways.  Like I wrote "what estates??".  There is more to this than you even know so unless you are thinking you will be in a nursing home in the near future, I think the point is moot.  I know what the rules are and I think it can be very unfair to parents who may leave behind a needy adult child but this conversation is not on topic for DA.  Thank you very much.
1
paoli2paoli21,365 posts since
Aug 10, 2011
Rep Points: 5,983
8. Thursday, March 6, 2014 - 3:54 PM
Click on the "click here" in this article to see if your state is one that can require family members to pay your nursing home bill.
Avoid a $93,000 Bill For Your Dad's Long-Term Care - Forbes 

Also for adult needy children there are trusts that cannot be broken so that they will be cared for. 
1
Ally6770Ally6770909 posts since
Jan 16, 2010
Rep Points: 2,640
9. Thursday, March 6, 2014 - 4:26 PM
Posters:  Before you click on #8's link and become concerned if you live in one of these states, please know that the government has it's own way of making sure this seldom happens.  They want family members to visit their parents so they know by enforcing these laws, they will just cause nursing home residents to be abandoned even worse than they are now.  So whether or not my state is one of the so called states with the "mark" on it is on no concern to me. My family is aware of my distain about dying in a nursing home so they will also not have to be concerned about this.   This subject really seems to be of interest to certain posters (who must not be actually reading their PMs) and I do wonder why.  Or maybe I do know why.  Now can we return to finding those CDs to make a part of our so called "estate"?
1
paoli2paoli21,365 posts since
Aug 10, 2011
Rep Points: 5,983
10. Thursday, March 6, 2014 - 4:54 PM
I don't know about your state but Pa and one other state has made children who live out of state  pay for the remaining nursing home bills. Not sure about your state has about family  members, but it is the STATE and not the federal gov that enforces this law. I know of 2 states that used this law even when the out of state adult child was on disability did not visit the parent because of physical issues. Another out of state child was 62 and lost his share of he and his wives home and they were not able to pay back the HE loan they both were forced to sign before they could get the HE because the home was joint. Neither child signed any papers with the nursing home. 
1
Ally6770Ally6770909 posts since
Jan 16, 2010
Rep Points: 2,640
11. Thursday, March 6, 2014 - 5:50 PM
  Thanks for the article Ally.  I read a little bit more of the case on another site and seems to be a lot of loose ends to the story. Seems this woman in her mid 60’s was in a car accident and broke both legs.  It does not mention anything about her having insurance or who was at fault so  seems to me these people were intent on committing fraud from the get go and have someone else pick up the bill. How convenient that she was relocated to Greece as soon as she got out of the facility. Sounds like she went straight to the airport from the nursing home. The son was the responsible party when she went into the nursing home to make sure her care was paid for.  The article states that the mother and father were separated yet in the other article the son indicates he is keeping his mother and father in Greece out of the legal proceedings. He also told the nursing home his father would pay the bill. After the son lost the case he stated the law wasn’t fair that he had to pay the bill. Does he think it is fair for the nursing home to pay for her care? There is more conflicting information in the story but won’t get into the entire case. Just sounds like they were trying to get out of paying their debt and glad they were caught. One thing that may be over looked is the cost of the care for skilled nursing for 6 months was $93,000. A lot more than $80,000 per year sites usually state as the average cost of a nursing home.
1
FARFAR105 posts since
Feb 26, 2013
Rep Points: 379
12. Thursday, March 6, 2014 - 6:05 PM
Here is another letter or partial letter on Pa.

My brother and I are being sued for app. $14,000, by a nursing home in PA. My father passed away last year and had medicare and medicaid, at the time of his death. We can't understand how they can sue us, but a lawyer told us we will lose if we go to court, because the state court upheld the ruling that a man in PA had to pay his mother's bill. I'm literally going to have to sell my home to pay for this, because I'm on disability and I don't have anything to my name, but the house, which has been in my family, since 1929..
1
Ally6770Ally6770909 posts since
Jan 16, 2010
Rep Points: 2,640
13. Thursday, March 6, 2014 - 6:31 PM
Does anyone know what the consensus is on interest rates for 2019??  Thanks!
1
paoli2paoli21,365 posts since
Aug 10, 2011
Rep Points: 5,983
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