I always have positive experiences when I have to go to the bank, if I have ever needed anything they have never let me down. The staff there are always super kind to us. I've had a few instances with fraudulent charges but they resolved the matter right away. I am a very happy customer.
If I could give no stars I would. I have 3 business accounts with regions and have been with them since 2012. Recently they put a corp security (fraud) hold on all of my accounts, not sure when they did it considering I never received an email, phone call, or letter stating this was going to happen. As a business owner, this type of thing is important. Now I have checks and auto pays being returned with a reason of freeze. I watch my accounts and there has been no fraud activity on any of my accounts. I have called the 800# and they have to talk to the person who put the freeze on the accounts to see if they will lift it, so my fate is left in the hands of 1 person. I was told I could deposit funds but no debits are coming out and that was true until last night when the bank debited their analysis charge out. To me no debits means no debits not even for you (the bank).
I have been a customer of Regions ever since I was old enough to have my own bank account, so roughly 18 years. As I hardly ever have time to physically enter a Regions, as I often work during the week, I primarily do all of my banking online. In all the years that I have used their online service I have never had a single problem. I have never had a dropped deposit, or lost payment. Their online website is simple to navigate, and on the rare instances that I do have a problem, their customer service is always quick to get back to me and help me resolve the issue at hand. If you are someone who keeps a hectic schedule that conflicts with normal banking hours, I highly recommend them.
As a new Floridian I was looking for a new bank. I was not all that satisfied with my large national bank and was looking for great customer service. I found it!
From the tellers to the customer service representatives I am always amazed at how good their people skills are! Everyone is pleasant, helpful, and extremely patient.
When I made a checking account error and needed a lot of help to straighten it out, my C/S rep could not have been more patient. He helped me figure out my error and made some online banking suggestions which would prevent me making the same error in the future.
It's also very helpful to find a local bank that actually has safe deposit boxes; something so many banks seem to have discontinued (including my old large national bank branch).
Good customer service is helping the client. GREAT customer service is going beyond and helping to prevent future problems or issues.
This is a dishonest nasty bank advertising and promoting fraudulent bonus offers for opening new bank or credit card accounts. After you sign up and satisfy the requirements for their bonus, they will hassle you endlessly when you try to get them to actually pay the bonus they advertised. It quickly becomes obvious they have a systematic plan to frustrate your bonus request with time-consuming irritating repeated questions and so-called "confirmations-and-verifications" of obvious information they already have. They will also transfer you from department to department so you have to endure their questions multiple times - a sustained effort to frustrate, delay or deny your bonus request. Even letters to their President and CEO won't help - all you will get is more questions and NO bonus. This bonus seeker writes from experience and is now seeking government consumer protection agency and attorney general help to obtain an earned bonus. STAY AWAY FROM REGIONS BANK !
I had checks stolen out of a filing cabinet by our housekeeper. Over the course of 5 months she stole $17,000 in forged checks. I went paperless and did not notice until I saw quite a few checks on the account and looked into them. I found that the housekeeper had written them out to cash and signed and cashed them at Regions. $4,000 of what was missing I reported 7 days after the last statement was issued. I filled out the affidavid, had it notarized, provided all police reports and information to dispute and have reversed. They declined ALL reimbursements even though the law states I have 30 days to report fraud from the statement date. They said we suggest I close the account and contact the police. The account was frozen and they have all the police information and SHE'S IN JAIL & the evidence is solid, the police caught her with one of my forged checks in her wallet with her finger print (the account had been frozen when she tried to cash that one).
That's one issue but A BIGGER one is that she went to MY bank, MY branch walked up to the counter and signed a name other than her real name to the check. She either had a fake ID or no ID but she cashed forged checks made to cash with no problem, some were for $550! AND she did so on a money market I have never even touched. Shouldn't Regions have some responsibility to check signatures, call me, check her ID? Clearly it was suspicious. They took fingerprints but guess what, they throw the original finger printed checks out so the police are not able to use a photocopy as evidence! Why would you even bother with the finger print!
At the same time that this happened I notice a $1,500 withdrawl from my bank account. I called Regions to ask what that was. Regions had charged me $1,500 for pulling a years worth of bank statement on that one account. I needed it for the accountant and it wasn't available online. When I went to the bank to have them get the statements for me the woman I spoke to said, I can get this done for you for free. I said great thinking to myself what would it cost anyway $30. I never got the statements from Regions, she was suppose to call me and when I called and left messages I never heard back so my accountant did the taxes without them.
So Regions charged me $1,500 to pull copies of 12 months of bank statements with very little activity on them. I went into Regions and talked to the same woman who told me she could do it for free. She said "No I told you it would cost $25 per hour for research fees" NOT TRUE! And are they trying to say that printing out a years worth of statements takes them 60 hours! WTF. They refuse to give me back the $1,500 they stole out of my account.
So because of Regions negligence and shady practices I am out $18,500. It appears I am going to need to get a lawyer.
I always go through the drive through at Regions Bank to deposit my payroll check. My favorite worker is there smiling as she always does. She acknowledges me by a very polite " Hello,how are you today?" I reply "Good, and you?" She replies, "I'm doing great today, thanks for asking" as I send my check, deposit ticket, and ID to her. Within less than five minutes, I have deposited my check. I love it when I do not have to wait in a long slow line. As the tube with my deposit ticket returns to my car, She comes back on the intercom,"Thank you Ms Dodge, you have a nice day" We thank one another as I retrieve my ticket and leave the drive through. I have been banking with Regions for several years and they always strives to provide the customer service whether it is just depositing a ticket or buying your first home.
I've been with Regions since I registered for my first debit card. I chose them specifically because they were much closer than my main bank, and I use them for my checking account. They've went back and forth on charging me fees and not, so that's kind of a negative, but I've never had any issues, so I can't dock too much off them. There have been a few instances when I had to contact them for customer service issues. One was a time that I had lost my debit card. They were able to quickly deactivate the card and send me a new one with free expedited shipping. The other time I was calling ahead of time because I was writing a large check to put down as a down payment. I wanted to make sure they wouldn't view this as suspicious activity and to make sure my account would be frozen while they investigated. The CSR was very helpful and they flagged my account to make sure the process went smoothly. Although I haven't used them for any serious banking, they've been more than helpful in everything I require from them.
Looked at our account online and noticed someone had put through an unauthorized withdrawal. Turns out Regions decided to withdraw not one but two installment loan payments without our knowledge or approval. Didn't know they could or would do that. Turns out if a payment is past due, they can and will do whatever they want. Our account is now $50 in the red and they're happy as can be with all the overdraft fees they'll be able to charge. Had an account for over 15 years but am going to close it and open one somewhere Regions can't get to. Anything's got to be better than these bloodsuckers.
To make a long story short, Last Saturday i tried to withdraw a 40 dollar's on my checking account in one of their ATM here in knoxville. But there is no 40 dollar's that supposed to be coming out on the ATM , They been saying that just forget the 40 dollar's your'e not gonna get that anymore. Those managers that working there are not so friendly.
This bank Refuses to give my money back because they feel like they don't have enough evidence on the case! The charges was made out of another state that's 9 HOURS AWAY! I can't be at 2 places at a time! This bank doesn't care about customers and they don't care about your money!
I just wanted to take a minute to write about my experience with Regions. I recently purchased a home using a regions mortgage. The process was very easy because I had great people at regions helping me. Because I was getting a mortgage I qualified for checking, savings and Money market accounts with no fees. I was moving out of state but was able to start the process in my original state. The people are the most friendly people you will meet. They explain everything and always make sure that I understand. I will definitely keep banking with regions.
This banks customer service is absolutely horrible. IN person or online. They never give you complete information, and when you follow their instructions, you find out that it's completely different in person, via phone or online. I believe that's due to the laziness of the employee who wants to pawn his work off on the next person. This has happened to me repeatedly. I have an above average IQ, so usually, I am not the ONE misunderstanding. This BANK is a JOKE. They let you open accounts online and then tell you that you can't have it, then, charge you a $25 fee to close it which they take out of your initial deposit. Emailing a banker for help always gets a response of : Please call and speak directly to an online banker. Even for the simplest questions. ie.... banking telephone hours ???? Just DON'T BANK HERE.... you will eventually regret it!!!
My Father in Law passed away with a small balance in his checking account and a Regions credit card. Unlike other banks these folks are actively working to create obstacles and elongate the time required to close these out. For example, all other CC issuing banks - four in total - have closed accounts with one phone call. They confirmed the death via my FIL's obituary. Regions is demanding a death certificate and these are an additional $25. Petty and pointless. There are many other stories I could tell but I'm too disgusted with these money grubbing jerks. Long story short, stay away from this "bank."
I opened an account at a branch in Franklin, TN and 4 weeks later I started recieving letters demanding payment for pay day loans. The loan groups had my social and this bank's routing number and my bank account. I went in to the branch to file a frau report and they wouldn't take it! They just kept telling me it was my fault and I must have been reckless with my information. After proving i was not reckless they tried to blame in on my sister who's living with me. 6 months later I'm still dealing with the identity theft and now have information showing the pay day loans were signed off by a banking representative AFTER I HAD TRIED TO FILE THE REPORT! Unbelievable.
Stay away from this bank!
My sons tax refund was automatically put into my acct and the bank took out my credit line pymt ok no problem the next day I went to withdraw the rest and the teller put a hold on it as i was standing there and explained that it was my sons money so he had to sign a letter and produce id and then wait for a district mgr to approve it. So it was my money when the bank got theirs but his money when we wanted it? I was told this was a new policy because I did the same thing last year no problem since my son and i live in different cities he went to a branch in his city produced id and signed this letter and the branch mgr called my branch to let them know he got all the information he was to fax it to my branch who in turn faxes to district for approval i asked how long the hold was for and they told me they could hold it until August 2014!!! over a year? when the teller got the paperwork she rejected it because his state id was expired and i was told if i don;t withdraw it within 30 days they will send it back OK this is NOT a bank wide policy I called 4 other branches within the state and customer service and was told it is just a guideline why was the money mine when they wanted their pymt and his when we wanted cash? no way to speak to anyone in authority or higher than customer service cannot close the acct can"t get the money can"t speak to anyone. very frustrated DO NOT BANK WITH REGIONS
Regions took their credit card in-house on 9/9/12 and totally messed it up. For a business credit card you have to call a toll free number that goes to a consumer credit card customer service department and they have to transfer you to a business rep. That means you're ON HOLD TWICE waiting for a long time to get to the correct person. What sense does this make?
To transfer money from a Regions business checking account to a Regions business credit card takes 2 days when they make all these electronic transactions overnight. It should show up in your account online the next day, but it doesn't.
These are just 2 examples of their inefficiencies and poor customer service. They aren't keeping up with the ability of technology like other banks.
On August 30, 2012, I had someone use my debit card to make an unauthorized purchase in the amount of $1,644.99. On August 31, 2012, I noticed the unauthorized purchase and immediately reported it to my bank (Regions Bank). I cancelled that card and initiated the process to file a dispute. I returned to them a dispute form and awaited a investigation into the charges. After a week, the bank declined my dispute, indicating that they did not have enough information. In the meantime, I also contacted the company from which the purchase was made. They immediately checked into the purchase and acknowledged that the charges were not made by me and issued a refund this occurred on September 13, 2012. I waited for one week (September 20, 2012), to call the bank and inquire about the refund. At that time I was told that the debit card department would have to look into it and get back to me. I waited for one week (until September 27, 2012) and when I did not hear back from them, I called them to inquire once again about the incident. I was told at that time that the bank had denied my dispute and that they would not be refunding my money. I then told them that I had called the company (Orbitz) and the company verified that the charges were not made by me or anyone that I know and therefore they were unauthorized. At that time I was told to send them a copy of the email from Orbitz, which I did immediately. They also told me to contact Orbitz again for the refund, which I did. When I contacted Orbitz, I was told that they had already initiated the refund and that I should contact my bank. I called Regions Bank back and at that time they looked into my account and said that they did not see where Orbitz attempted to refund my money and that they could not do anything for me. They even attempted to accused me of trying to use this process to retain money for a purchase that I had made, but no longer wanted to take responsibility for. I've been a loyal customer of that bank for 18 years and I've never tried to falsify any claim and I'm very offended that they would accuse me of doing such. I followed all of the correct procedures by immediately reporting the unauthorized charge and cancelling my card, however I feel as though my bank is taking a hands-off attitude as if they don't believe my claim. From everything that I have been reading on regarding making a claim for unauthorized charges, the bank usually takes responsibility and refunds your account as long as the claim is make in a short time frame. I will also be filling a report with my local police department as a part of this process, however I am really taken aback by how I've been treated by my bank in this situation. First by giving me the run around and secondly by having them take a "we can't do anything for you" kind of attitude. I would have expected better after so many years of loyal service.
Charged approximately $800.00 NSF in business account for something that was partially bank error. Did not expect bank to remove all fees but did expect removal of some fees. Initially, REGIONS claimed not able to remove any fees because Branch Manager out of town. Finally, able to talk to employee who reminded me of fast food employee. Did not think outside box, i.e. new business (not much money now but based on type of business, more later), partial bank error, good customer service, cheaper than most marketing, etc. Employee refused to remove even one fee. I requested talking to someone of managerial level - thought the problems would be better addressed. UNFORTUNATELY, that was MATT (Operations) who was "too busy" to talk to me. Employee told me MATT confirmed her decision - no fees reversed! When the Branch Manager returned, she advised she was told she could not refund even one fee ("my hands are tied") by MATT (OPERATIONS - TYLER). I was told by REGIONS that MATT is nice but young and inexperienced. Well this young, inexperienced MATT sure has a lot of authority if he is able to tie the hande of the Branch Manager. Same MATT who was too busy to address this problem with a new business owner.
Although, the Branch Manager & tellers were not able to help - they are always friendly when I go in to bank.
The 800 customer service help is a joke - impossible to get any type of quick assistance based on the numerous verifications questions asked.
I bank at USAA for my personal accounts and have for 30-years. I have ALWAYS GIVEN USAA 5 STARS.
Unfortunately, I just started a mortgage with this bank. The whole process was completely disorganized (this is my third of such experiences, and never before had so many issues). Amounts listed on different copies of legal documents didn't match up - they showed no concern. Rather than asking for a simple list of documents, requests were sporatically made over months timespan - receipt of requested documents never verified, despite my repeated inquiries. In general, broker didn't respond to emails for weeks. Set me up with a local checking account, as said was required, but asked for no deposit before ordering checks - caused my account to overdraft, obviously detrimental to my credit rating. Customer service telephone service is horrible - none of the options listed was applicable and it gave no instructions for talking to representative (by the way, I by chance pressed 0 and it's sends you to a rep - only hung up on me twice). I hopefully will have my checking account canceled by next week and can only pray that another company buys off my mortgage. Go elsewhere for more professional service.
I recently obtained a mortgage through Regions in Bloomington, IN. I've had a couple experiences with this before, and they had by far the worst service. The whole process seemed completely disorganized. Numbers on legal documents didn't match up, broker didn't care. Didn't respond to emails for weeks. Signed me up for a bank account, as they said was required, but gave me no info about deposit requirements or asked for one - learned about it when I got an overdraft notice in the mail. While nothing was catastrophic, you cannot trust this bank to fully inform you. There are definitely better options out there.
I have only been with Regions Bank for a couple of months. This has been the worst couple of months ever! In just this short amount of time they have got me for 252$. I always log online to check my balance. The balance it shows has never been accurate. Nor does it show any pending status. Any other bank I have ever been with has at least had the courtsey of showing you your availabe balance. In the end I overdraft thinking I have the available funds, resulting in enormous fees. When I call customer service they just argue with you. Always saying I am wreckless with my account. I got off the phone in a complete panic and upset. I cant believe the hae the nerve to speak to a customer like this!! This was the biggest mistake ever!! I am closing my account and going to a local credit union. Doesnt even deserve negative one star!!
reions bank double dipps on there overdraft fees and find ways to talk all of your money out of your account. i had only one tranaction pending and it was for 201 by the time they got done with ever thing they got the 201, 108 , then took 38 dollars for over drafts so stay as far away from this bank as possiable
I hate to hear problems others have had, but I think most people are quick to complain when they have a problem, but don't take the time to write a review if they had a good experience. I bank with Regions in Auburn, AL, and haven't had any problems. The people are nice and I can always get them on the phone. They always take time to answer my questions and explain things to me. I like the online and mobile banking, and the cash back rewards in my account. I am in my 40's and started with them in high school in Mobile, AL, when it was First AL bank. Never had any problems there either, and my Dad still banks with them in Mobile.
Regions Bank has a poor computer system because it was unable to handle an address change due to the branch not being in our area. A manager could not even override the system to change the address. We had to physically go to the bank which was out-of-state to have it taken care of.
Please let me warn everyone to stay away from Regions I have been with them for 7 years and I now regret every second that I have ever been with them. They will tell you the manipulate the checks to come out the biggest to the smallest no matter what order you write them in. They seem to "lose" paper work after something happens that is their fault. I work hard for my money and I am a full time college student and they will steal your money all day long. Belive me if there was a star less than 1 I would click that! I want to warn everyone to NEVER BANK WITH REGIONS!
I have a few accounts open and of course there are fees associated with them. I'm a budget savvy kind of guy. So I call them to see if the can waive my fees since I been with them for 10 years. Of course not, but here's the minimum balances you must attain 1500 hundred and 1000 for personal. I call back to see if this include the money in your savings as well that you have tied to your account. NOPE, but you must behave a balance of 2000 thousand for business and 1500 hundred for personal. Okay, 500 may not be a lot to some, but I told you I was budget savvy. She told me sorry for the misinformation and go to my banker.
This Bank does not care about it's customers...Their saborenation policies are not friendly to their customers who have second mortgages with them.
With this economy and appraisals running lower than they were six years ago "Regions bank", who Holds our second mortgage; will not let us refinance our First mortgage even though they remain in the same position they were in when they gave us this loan.
Refinancing our First mortgage through the"HARP" program would save us $275. a month right now, and would have saved us more in the past when interest rates were lower.
These government programs that are meant to help the middle-class need stricter "guide lines" for these Banks, who hold it's unsuspecting customers "Hostage".
I might add; Region Banks' has had no problem accepting "Tarp" money when the government was handing it out though!....Thanks for reading this.
Avoid this bank at all cost possible. They will charge overdraft fees even when they were not your fault. They are trully careless about customers. They are there to get money from customers. I am sick of how much money they took from my account.
We were customers for over 15 years with Regions bank in Inverness, Florida, until they got very greedy and began charging fees for the ATM. Then they changed their minds and gave us back the 4.00 they charged. We went to and ATM to take out cash and hit the wrong button, and got a receipt with transactions on it, and then charged $2.00 for a mini-statement. We closed our account and transferred all out drafts to a credit union. There was nothing in the account and they returned the draft after charging us $36.00 and reactivating our account. We tried to get the $36.00 off the account, but they wouldn't hear of it. We had to pay it on a closed account with $0.00 balance.
Be careful if you do business with them, as they will get you one way or the other. MJED
In South Georgia (Valdosta, GA) Regions is great, Staff very customer oriented. I have been banking with Regions for over 8 years. Personal Checking and a Business Checking. Feels great when you walk in and they call you by name. I have other accounts with banks in our area and they do not give you the royal treatment like Regions.
The Five Stars are not just for Customer Service, but also their banking practices towards account holders is much better than the other area banks I have accounts with. They do not put a 10 day hold on deposited check funds like one of the local banks that I do business with for 23 years does! They even put a 10 day hold on a check I deposited that was written from my Regions Account and my account balance was much greater than the check I deposited. Regions has never held any funds from me! A very happy customer!
I have been with Regions for over 10 years since it was Union Planters. They started charging me a $10 monthly fee, and a $4 fee to use my check card. No thank you, I will be joining a credit union to do my banking. Goodbye Regions, and good riddance.
I have been with Regions for many 14 years..(Union Planters)..I am now being charged $14 A MONTH to use MY MONEY!!! I do realize that all banks are crooked now and charging these frivolous fees, but this amount is proposterous. Regions says if I keep more money in the account it can be waived, but I have had my account information stolen and the process/time to have funds reimbursed was long. Why would I keep more money in my account so more can be stolen...not if, but when the account gets hacked again?
This fee is absolutely unnecessary to use MY MONEY...unbelievable.. I will be leaving Regions and going to a credit union. As stated, I do understand that many banks are charging a fee now, but I know of none to this degree.
Keep this in mind when choosing a bank.
To make a long story short, Regions allowed a debit on my account by another person for over $800. Wow! Talk about your money not being safe!!! I never got a clear answer as to why they'd let someone by a totally different name than what's on the account withdrawl any amount of money. They told me it would be 3-5 days before I'd get the money credited back to my account and because the weekend was coming up, it'd take even longer.
My husband when down to the branch to complain and they called the police on him. How do you like that for customer service?!!! Oh yeah, they didn't credit our account until several days later and then we immediately closed it!!!!
I have been a customer of regions since union planters was bought by them. Riple tn. branch was good up until a few months ago when they started changing the branch management regularly. the last few months have gone terribly downhill. no one knows who you are any more and management at higher levels seem to be uncaring. i am closing my account with this company and would not reccomend them to any one.
Unlike a previous poster, I've had nothing but good experience from Regions Bank. I've used two different locations in the last three years. One in Houston, TX and one in Ruston, LA. They were both knowledgeable, courteous and proficient. During these years I have opened about 7 or 8 CDs of varying terms and have since closed some of them as they matured. In the process I've gone through several different reps.
We use the Regions branches in the Dallas area and have had 0 problems. We've had our debit cards stolen twice - once, we still had the card but someone apparently swiped and sold the info - and all fraudulent charges were removed with no problems. We never have to wait to use the drive-up or walk-in tellers.
I went to cash my check at regions, to which I have an account with, and they told me that I could not cash my payroll check because I did not have the enough money in my account to do so. When I know myself that I was not in the negative at all. Wth? I will no longer be going there to do my banking. I would give them no stars if I could but that isn't an option, so I had to give them at least one.
After several years of maintaining both personal and business accounts at Regions, I have now become concerned about their condition and long term viability. Negative ROI and ROE are just the exterior signs causing alarm. Sharp personnel cutbacks, longer funds holding periods on, even, funds from other large Fed Member banks, and large fee increases combine to send up ingnificant red flags.
My family has taken out two Mortgages through Regions Bank. I Had also been a loyal customer of Regions Bank Customer for over 12 years. About 6 months ago, my state Identity and Regions Bank card was stolen and all my funds were drained from my account. Regions Bank assured me the problem would be taken care of and I would not be held responsible for any of the debited funds. The person who stole my identity also used fraudulent checks (not my checks) to withdraw money from my current balance. (Eg. He used stolen checks and cashed the stolen checks at a Regions Bank. The transaction was taken by a Regions Bank Employee who then cashed the fraudulent checks on my account. When the checks were returned, Regions bank charged my account for the Fraudulent Checks and the funds were debited out of my account for the amount of the Fraudulent Checks. )
I waited for over 5 months for some action to be taken. I took all necessary steps in which Financial Advisors Sean, Mia, and Michelle Bergeron asked of me at Regions Bank Cheshire Bridge. I was told I would be contacted by their Corporate Security Officer Frank and he would be the one to tell me when the funds would be released. It is now 6 months later and I have not received $1 of the large sum of money that I was told I would not be held responsible for. The last conversation I had with Michelle Bergeron is that Regions were exiting their relationship with me after 12 years and goodbye. I will be contacting the FDIC and also the BBB. I plan on posting this review on every possible review web site. DO NOT BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF LIKE I WAS. Regions does not stand behind their protocol or any of it's policies with the FDIC. Everything in this statement is true and I will stand behind everything stated. This has destroyed my credit and also my trust in any banking system.
I am a homemaker who sometimes work part time and I finally decided that I needed a bank account about a year ago. I went to couple other banks before going to Regions and they required too many documentation to open up a new account. Then I called Regions and they said all I needed was my I.D. to open an account. They have always been a hassle free place to visit. And they have really great customer service.
DO NOT use REGIONS bank or any AMsouth bank. They exist only to
find ways to remove money from your account. I have lost thousands
of dollars due to there incompetence on 2 different occasions. One
when a woman forgot to turn in paperwork to cancel a check card
when fraudulent charges showed up, thereby allowing my account to
be drained. Then tried to force me to pay hundreds in overdrafts
due to thier own incompetence!! When I contacted regions they ran
me around and literally did nothing. They lied to me about letting
me talk to a manager and only passed the phone to another low level
employee who lied to me about his position.
Less than a year later they did almost the same thing, failing
to close an account and tried to
hold me acountable for fraudulent charges after the account was
supposed to be closed. When I finally did get through to a higher
up, he told me..... "while I wasn't on the phone for that
converstation now was I?" "Lets see you prove it" Yeah this was MY
Simply put, they care nothing about thier customers, only finding
ways to part them from thier money through hidden rediculous
Bottom line... WHY take a chance? GO ELSEWHERE!!!