Valor Credit Union Sends Release Forms to Members with Prime Rate Certificates

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DA readers with Valor Credit Union Prime Rate Certificates have reported in the DA forum and in emails about receiving certified letters from Valor. I have not seen a copy of these letters, but based on readers’ descriptions, the letters include a release form in which the member agrees not to pursue further action against Valor for changing the terms to their Prime Rate Certificates (no longer accepting add-on deposits). In return, the credit union will allow add-on deposits of up to $25,000. The letter asks that the form be completed by March 31, 2016. It also mentioned that Valor will follow up with the member in the near future to acknowledge receipt of this letter and to answer any questions regarding this one time offer.

The letter also included a "reminder" that Valor continues to waive all early withdrawal penalties until further notice should members decide to withdraw funds from existing Prime Rate Certificates. This is the same waiver that Valor announced in December when they first announced that they are no longer accepting add-on deposits into Prime Rate Certificates.

One thing that’s not clear is if this letter and release form have been sent to everyone who has a Prime Rate Certificate. There’s speculation that it was sent only to those who complained and/or filed complaints with the CFPB or NCUA. It’s also not clear if everyone received the same offer.

From what I’ve seen, it appears that the management at Valor Credit Union has recognized that it made a bad decision in December (see my December blog post). In an attempt to rectify things, they’re making this offer. The offer seems to imply that the December change of terms of the Prime Rate Certificates (add-on deposits are no longer accepted) is still in effect. By signing the release form, the member will have the right to make up to $25K in add-on deposits, but the member gives up the right to pursue further action against Valor.

It appears that Valor continues to maintain that it has the right to unilaterally amend the terms of existing Prime Rate Certificates. However, Valor may realize that regulators and the courts may disagree.

If members choose to sign the release form, they should be able to make add-on deposits of up to $25K. Members will have to ask themselves if they trust Valor to not make other negative changes to their existing Prime Rate Certificates in the future.

If members choose not to sign, they may have to fight to maintain their right for unlimited add-on deposits. That fight may include pressuring regulators to rule against Valor and/or suing Valor in court.

There’s also the question of how much financial damage is being caused by these Prime Rate Certificates. It’s clear that Valor made a mistake with these Prime Rate Certificates. The unlimited add-on deposit was too costly. An honorable action would have been to stand by the original terms of these Prime Rate Certificates and live with the financial consequences. What if the financial consequences put the credit union at risk of failure? I can’t say if the financial consequences are that severe. Last September, Valor’s CEO abruptly left. According this Times Tribune article, he left "in the middle of one of its worst years in recent memory." If the credit union should happen to fail, the NCUA would likely find another credit union to take over. In that case the new credit union would be allowed to change the terms of all existing certificates. Those changes can include a lower interest rate.

Comments
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #1
I haven't received the letter yet and I would have to think about it but if I felt comfortable enough to put another $25k in(I opened it with 50k) as long as they included a guarantee that I could take an early withdrawal without a penalty for the life of the CD I would sign it.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #2
I would be grateful for any assistance because I am temporarily unable to access my letter:

Is Valor offering an additional $25,000 per member, or is it instead $25,000 per account?
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #3
If Valor is offering that deal to some prime rate cd owners and not all... well lets just say that would be another big mistake.....can they be that foolish?
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #9
You bet!  Valor potentates are not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #4
I filed a complaint and have not received this letter.  I received something back from NCUA saying its being looked at. Based on what is listed in the article they are not guaranteeing the no withdrawal penalty for life of the cd. only until further notice.  Based on their past misbehavior, i wouldn't trust that to last much after the ncua is done with them.  Had they given that option in the beginning, I would have thought it was fair if they set a timeframe with allowing additional deposits of 25k and allowed withdrawals with no penalty on the deposits up to that point either for the life of the cd or until they lift the restriction of no additional deposits.
RobofNY
RobofNY   |     |   Comment #6
I received the Valor letter over the weekend. It states that the TOTAL of deposits can not exceed $25.000 (Not $25,000 per account). You can distribute the 25k over multiple accounts.

Rob of NY
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #8
Thanks.  That's what I needed to know.
lou
lou   |     |   Comment #21
Can you provide a PDF link here so we can see the letter? Just block out your name and other private information.

Are you sure it's for all accounts? If yes, that's not all that attractive. They
must be pretty worried about all the complaints if they are attempting to get members not to pursue any further action. Does the letter mention if only those who complained, received it?

I'm still worried about their financial condition. The worse outcome for all us is if they're taken over by the NCUA.
RobofNY
RobofNY   |     |   Comment #41
To answer your question:

"In an effort to resolve, we would like to extend a one time good faith offer. This offer will allow you, the primary account holder to make ONE additional deposit to your prime rate certificate(s) of an amount not to exceed the sum of $25,000 by or before March 31, 2106. If you have multiple certificates, one deposit per certificate is allowed as long as the sum of all deposits does not exceed $25,000. Please note this offer is only good until the deadline noted and for the primary account holder to whom the letter is sent"
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #43
That is very helpful.  Thumbs up and thank you for posting.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #7
What Is the legal consideration for the release?  The max. add on will be "lowered" to $25K and "you" agree not to sue?  You are getting nothing for you to agree to $25K!  And, you are getting nothing for a release...tell them to get a new lawyer, too!
me1004
me1004   |     |   Comment #34
And from the thread in the forum, people said you have only until a date in early March to make  the add-on, after which you cannot make any add on.

The legal consideration:  It not only blocks you from suing, it blocks you from bringing a complaint to the NCUA -- it blocks any "action," not simply any lawsuit. And of course, if a class action should be brought, you cannot join in that to collect anything.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #10
You know, just thinkin' out loud:

If Valor is not making this offer to all participants in the Prime Rate Certificates it could open up a second avenue to go after them in court.  This is going to be FUN!!! 
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #27
Intending no disrespect toward you or your opinion, and I see you have many thumbs up so people agree with you, still:

Valor management would have to be completely insane to make the $25,000 offer to some members having Prime Rate Certificates and not to others.  They simply could not be that foolish.  Could they?  
Inforay
Inforay   |     |   Comment #47
I just called Valor to inquire about this offer because I had not received the letter.  Strangely, the CSR said that if you received the letter you have the offer, if you didn't receive the letter, you don't.  When I said that this was unfair that some members have an offer and not others, he transferred me to the voicemail for his supervisor, where I left a message.  I asked whether I had to file a complaint before I would receive the offer but he would not tell me.  I will see if my call is returned.  Could someone please let me know where I can file a complaint? 
Inforay
Inforay   |     |   Comment #54
Francis1, thank you very much for the information.  I am waiting for a supervisor to call me.  I think you are supposed to try and resolve it informally with the credit union first.
Kennewickman
Kennewickman   |     |   Comment #11
Could someone tell me if the add on funds must be deposited by 3/31/16. I have a CD maturing in June. Thanks
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #55
Yes.  At least that is my best understanding at present.  Please keep in mind:

The offer they have extended to some members is an arbitrary construct, strictly of their own creation.  As such it could mutate, or even disappear, at any time whatsoever.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #12
has anyone that filed a complaint heard back from the NCUA other than an acknowledgment of receipt?
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #13
anyone remember fort knox fcu  trying to change the terms of existing CDs awhile back. This is another lowlife credit union trying to **** their customers. I read some of the latest comments by posters on this site about fort knox fcu and the suckers are still waiting in line to do business with shysters like valor and fort knox. The ncua is worthless. Don't invest in a cd with any credit union if you value your money.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #16
I believe your blame is misplaced.  NCUA basically insures credit union members deposits.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #19
You should google NCUA and read about it. They charter and supervise federal credit unions, They have the authority to make these bad credit unions do the right thing but they are awol when corrupt credit unions like fort knox pull their crap. Poor oversight caused the savings and loan disasters and the huge number of failed banks and credit unions in the last decade. Ken and this website have done a great job in trying to inform the public and I hope he continues his valuable service.
FresnoMan
FresnoMan   |     |   Comment #14
I did not file a complaint and have not received the letter mentioned as of 2/23.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #17
i filed and didnt receive the letter from valour ncua said to wait 60 days. it took them more than a month to acknowledge receiving the electronic complaint
Have the Coward CU
Have the Coward CU (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #15
Another dirty tactic from Coward CU.
RobofNY
RobofNY   |     |   Comment #18
Cut Valor some slack - - it should never have been offered in the first place. They did try, last year, to tack on 3% to any new deposits made. That, with a lot of complaints, was overturned. I doubt this will be (though I wish it were).
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #20
Valor should be closed by the NCUA. They were and are incompetent. Buyer beware when oversight is poor. 
Bozo
Bozo   |     |   Comment #22
The inherent problem with this breach of contract (as with any breach of contract) is the absence of a simple remedy. I think back to the howls and screams over Ft. Knox FCU.

Point being: the NCUA might wag its finger, but I seriously doubt it has the power to compel Valor to honor the terms of the CD. Go to Court? What are your "damages"? Don't get me started on trying to enforce a judgment, should you be so lucky.

And, as others have noted, the most likely outcome is a liquidation, where the CD terms are wiped out.

As I noted elsewhere, bite the bullet, sign the release, deposit the $25,000, and hope for the best. After all, 3%+ isn't such a bad rate.
RateSaver02
RateSaver02   |     |   Comment #23
My wife and I each have Prime Rate CDs.  I filed a complaint with the NCUA, and my wife did not.  I received a letter, and my wife did not so it appears Valor is not sending these letters to all Prime Rate CD holders.  After showing the letter to my brother, an attorney, he suggested not signing the release and forcing the NCUA to rule on Valor's adherence to consumer compliance regulation requiring 30 days notice of an adverse change.  I have approximately $1.5 million that would have been deposited in the CD in January of this year.  A one-time deposit of $25,000 and the dividends earned on that paltry sum is not an equitable solution that would entice me to relinquish all of my future legal rights in the matter.  There is an obvious breach of contract and failure to provide adequate notice of changes to terms that adversely impact members as required under NCUA regulations and their own account agreement.  I will await the NCUA's determination; I am not concerned about the dividends that could have been earned on the $25,000, which will neither make nor break me, and I am uncomfortable relinquishing all of my rights by agreeing to hold Valor harmless.  

Based on information on their website last month, many of their Board of Directors are up for re-election.  If it is not too late, we should all participate in that election and at least force a change in its incompetent leadership.  We post here and some of us have filed complaints, but what exactly is the tangible impact on those making these decisions?  How many Prime Rate CD holders are there versus how many people received these "good faith" offers?  If the offer was really being made in good faith, it would be made to all of their Prime Rate CD members, not a select few.  Their management continuously missteps.
lou
lou   |     |   Comment #24
RateSaver, how would you respond to Bozo's post? What is the remedy you're seeking? Obviously, with $1.5 million deposited in these CDs, you do want to jeopardize the financial viability of the CU, so what is it you would like to achieve with them?
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #29
$1.5 million that would have been deposited
jimbeau
jimbeau   |     |   Comment #86
So, you're not worried about having more money in a single financial institution than is insured by the feds?   I'm finding this all rather hard to believe.
franklin pierce
franklin pierce (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #33
incidentally, my letter states that if you sign it , you must keep the terms of the agreement confidential.  Presumably , all the people here discussing it dont plan to sign it.  The ones who do are obligated by the contract to not speak about it
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #36
Maybe those discussing it here simply have not made up their minds whether to sign or not.

Regardless, conditions imposed by these Valor clowns are difficult to take seriously under any circumstances.  They all are on mighty thin ice, and I think they know it!!  
Have Coward
Have Coward (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #38
Simple ... publish/discuss/disclose the unsigned letter first ... Sign the letter (if you want) afterwards ... No foul ... Right?
Ed
Ed (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #62
$1.5 million....maybe Valor should take your money and then declare bankrupcy.....so the NCUA can only return $250,000 while Valor keeps the rest....schmuck.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #68
Ed: I'd suggest educating yourself on NCUA insurance structuring first before making additional comments that illustrate your ignorance. Strap on your helmet so you don't hurt yourself. 
jimbeau
jimbeau   |     |   Comment #87
I'd suggest that you follow your own advice.  No one in their right mind would dump that much money in one financial institution (especially one that seems to be circling the drain).  A lot of people got the shaft the last go around by being too cute with "insurance structuring".   But, then again, this is a blog.  There's a lot of "blog millionaires".
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #89
I wasn't the original poster #87.  I don't have millions, but I know how to structure  because I have a larger CD elsewhere.  Ed doesn't seem to understand you can be covered for more than $250K.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #122
I am not aware of any position statements issued from those now running for the Board of Directors that would make my vote worth casting. Are you?  Are there any candidates who would restore the ability of depositors to add to the prime rate CD?
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #25
Looks like this CU won't be around for the long term. Let's see if the NCUA just closes them down for making an interest rate product that they can't support. Fold it into another CU that doesn't have to honor the product and all of the problems disappear and the CU savers get the short end of the stock.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #26
I do not take pride in making this admission, and I do so only with hesitation and embarrassment:

I have not filed a complaint over these most recent Valor shenanigans.  I did file the first time, when they attempted to impose the fee, so I'm well aware how easy it is to file a complaint and how little time it takes.

I messed up, I will be filing my complaint today, and by no means do I believe it is too late to do so.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #28
More than a month after Valor Credit Union suddenly parted ways with its chief executive officer, Sean E. Jelen, the company this week said he failed to return his company luxury sedan — the car police say he was driving shortly after his departure when they stopped him on suspicion of driving under the influence. Mr. Jelen of South Abington Twp. had to return the credit union’s 2015 Mercedes-Benz S550 after his last day on Aug. 19, Valor spokeswoman Amy Crain said. After more than a month of waiting, the credit union reported the missing vehicle to Scranton police on Tuesday. A day later, the vehicle was returned to the credit union.“We had given him great latitude,” Ms. Crain said. The company is still deciding if it will drop its pursuit of criminal charges against Mr. Jelen over the car. Kara Badyrak, chairwoman of Valor’s board of directors, wrote an Aug. 28 letter to members that “Sean Jelen is no longer President and CEO at Valor Credit Union.” It offered no explanation and prompted speculation from North Carolina credit-union observer Keith Leggett, who operates Credit Union Watch, that the departure was not a “favorable parting.” The credit union, through Ms. Crain, declined to elaborate on what happened when it named Edward J. Fox as interim CEO in September.“It’s not something I can comment on,” Ms. Crain reiterated Wednesday. “He’s no longer with us. That is the statement we are sticking to.”Mr. Jelen ran into potential legal trouble almost as soon as he split from the credit union. At 12:20 a.m. on Aug. 20, a Scranton police officer pulled over Mr. Jelen on the McDade Expressway heading out of the city near the Main Avenue exit, Chief Carl Graziano said. The headlights of the company-owned sedan were off. Mr. Jelen appeared drowsy, had slurred speech and glossy eyes, the chief said, citing a report. Mr. Jelen admitted he drank that evening, police said. Mr. Jelen failed a field sobriety test and was taken into custody and processed on suspicion of DUI. Charges are pending the result of a blood alcohol content test. D&S Towing and Auto Sales towed the Mercedes-Benz that night. Later on Aug. 20, Mr. Jelen paid a $270 fee and left with the sedan, company President Bob Sheridan said. Ms. Crain was unsure of the specifics of the car’s return, including whether Mr. Jelen brought it back or if someone retrieved it. Attempts to reach Mr. Jelen were unsuccessful Wednesday.
jim
jim (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #30
I'm gonna guess this will end up like Darby credit union which the NCUA just shut the doors.




Banks are liars and thieves, nothing else.  I would recommend to never sign away your legal right to sue.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #31
Never invest in a CD at a credit union with the idea that the terms of the CD agreement will be enforced to your benefit. The mess at Fort Knox FCU  showed that NCUA is unable or unwilling to force CUs to abide by the terms of their agreements. Trying to sue a CU  is a waste of time and effort, You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #32
The more complaints will just cause the government agencies to react more.  Their solution will be to eliminate the trouble which is easy for them to do.  Banks and CU's are government controlled.  They can change or make new rules at anytime with the permission of the government agencies. 


Looks at what happens to bond holders that are are suppose to be guaranteed by the issuers. Detriot, Puerto Rico to name just 2.  The governments can change the rules.
Jennifer
Jennifer (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #35
Assuming this is true, I find it simply shocking.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #37
I have a number of cd's with valor's Prime rate... I did not receive a letter and did not file a complaint. I was going to however I thought it may be a good idea to wait a while... Sure enough the 25,000 extra would not help me as I was about to send much more than that.... I was hoping that when the new advisors arrive in the near future they would have 2nd thoughts and reopen it.... What was happening was they couldn't keep up with small amts. of money coming monthly I believe.  I am mad but we will see what happens.... Also ,, I am not Ratesaver 02 as I see someone hijacked my comment name.. I am ratesaver period... Can't understand how that happened....
Yield Hunter
Yield Hunter (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #39
Every contract has an 'escape' clause.  If it didn't, it would be a terrible contract.  Here's why....
When things are going well, the 'good' version of the contract will be implemented.  When they are going bad, the less lucrative version of the contract will be implemented.  The contract was written this way to ensure the bank has at least has a chance to bounce back from whatever 'bad' is taking place.  Because if you don't give them the chance to bounce back,...you will GUARANTEED never get the lucrative rate you are currently receiving.   Make sure you understand this...."Sinking the CU = NOT getting 3%, but instead trading it out for a much lower rate.  That is financially stupid!  You are already receiving an A+ in terms of rate of return with the prime rate CD.  To ask for even more, at the expense of losing all of it could be considered not only foolish, but greedy.  Especially when you already know that Valor is trying to remain afloat as opposed to be in any position to take on more debt.  And remember....EVERY financial contract has an 'escape' clause which they honestly hope to never use because that would mean that things are going horribly wrong.  Instead of demanding even more lucrative perks from an institution that is in trouble, how about finding out what you can do to help Valor out of this dilemma.  Because if Valor makes it, you at least get your 3%.  If they don't, you will currently get much less.  I don't like one bit that Valor has changed the terms and conditions of their Prime Rate CD.  But because the CD came with an 'escape clause', I can at least understand WHY they are doing it.  Here's why:  #1.)  They legally can [read the fine print],  and  #2.) They are desperate and are trying to do whatever they can to keep the CU afloat.  It's factually the most responsible thing to do under the circumstances if you think about it.  But to be very clear, I would much rather have things going well with the add-on feature still in place.  We probably all would!

NOTE:  I hope the new management  of Valor along with the newly formed board members will closely look into what specifically caused Valor's downturn in the past year and address it head on.  The CU has always been profitable for the previous 50 years!  What happened???  Someones got some 'splainin' to do!
NOTE:  
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #40
Absolutely CORRECT in  every regard. 
RobofNY
RobofNY   |     |   Comment #42
I reluctantly agree with what "Yield Hunter" posted.  We can win the skirmish, but lose the war. I will sign and mail in my additional 25K and just accept the fact that is my CD's are about 1/4 of what maturing CD's would have allowed.  Also, I hope, Valor stays around.

Not that this makes it easier. About 8 years ago or so; Self Help Credit Union in California (with whom i had 2 CD's) gave 5% with an add on provision. A bit over a year later; they rescinded the add on provision.

People weren't organized like they are today online - so there was no outcry. But changing terms is a fact of life, unfortunately.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #142
No one's probably reading this anymore, but I disagree for 3 reasons.
(1) It plays to the lowest rung of human behavior: "I've got mine, too bad for you." Not everyone could open or deposit large sums in the beginning. Others have been waiting for funds (large or small) to mature elsewhere to then transfer to Valor. It allows the deep-pocketed, those who had the funds early, to continue reaping all the benefits, while shutting out everyone else
(2) If Valor is allowed to change any terms at will, there is absolutely NO guarantee that next month they won't decide to lower the 3% down to 0.05%. Absolutely nothing to stop them.
(3) It is a matter of following the rules that they impose on consumers, and (supposedly) on themselves. The agreement says "Non-negotiable" on it, in cap letters and bold print. What Valor is claiming (make no mistake) is that across the board -- on ANY product (be it CD, loan, credit card, what have you), the consumer must be absolutely 100% bound by the terms of the agreements, but that the institution can -- at ANY TIME, for ANY PRODUCT, at WHIM, change the terms of signed, non-negotiable agreements, to their liking, and get out of them. Referencing Point #1 again, if someone isn't personally invested (and thus has the "I've got mine, too bad for you" attitude), everyone else will see that there is a reason for contracts -- that ALL parties have to abide by their terms (and even taking devil's advocate -- if, stupidly, the NCUA were to rule that an institution could change the terms of a non-negotiable contract as they see fit, Valor even did THAT illegally, by giving NO ADVANCE NOTICE, in clear violation of NCUA rules (look it up).

So NO, it is NOT better to keep things status quo (unless you have large amounts invested, and thus have the cynical "I've got mine, too bad for you" attitude).

I have a Prime Rate CD, and if Valor has to be merged and acquired, and the 3% rate is gone, so be it, at least it's on the up-and-up, and doesn't stink of hypocracy (just because I got lucky to invest my money beforehand, too bad for you). Not to mention that even those with large amounts already in it, Valor might merge (or lower its interest rate to zero) anyway next week.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #44
A $100,000 Benz was given to the ex CEO who lost $500,000 the last year he was there.
Anon456
Anon456 (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #45
One thing people are forgetting is that Valor believes, if it's in their interest, they can change the OTHER terms of the CD as well, including the INTEREST RATE and the TERM LENGTH. Say they're allowed to go through with this. What's to stop them from next month, deciding to change the interest rate from 3% to 0.05%? Absolutely NOTHING, according to them. Or better yet, in two months, to then decide to change the TERM of the CD from 7-years to 15 years? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING according to them.

The Add-On feature was as major a factor in this CD as the Interest Rate and the Term Length. That Valor thinks they can change its terms at any time -- ANY of the terms -- at will -- makes any agreements USELESS -- but only unilaterally (on THEIR side only).

If I had a loan with them and was having a bad year, a nice credit union might (or might not) try to work with me a little around the edges, do you think they would alter the major terms of my loan with them because *I* want them to? "You want a better interest rate? Sure, happy to do so! Want to change your 30 year loan to a 47.6 year loan in the middle? Sure, happy to do so." Yeah, right.

This cuts to the heart of whether a credit union has to honor ANY of its agreements AT ALL.

They need to take responsibility for their actions. If they aren't able to stand by their commitments, and it comes to that they must be merged, then so be it (even if it means losing the 3%). Some of us have been there before. But there shouldn't be ONE of us banking at an institution that literally claims it doesn't have to honor ANY of its agreements.

The NCUA needs to put a stop to this.
Francis1
Francis1   |     |   Comment #69
This is exactly how I am thinking. What's next? If you sign the release does that allow Valor immunity for ANYTHING they unilaterally do in the future? Change the cds interest rate, change the term. They can say, we can do that because you signed the release. And maybe they can IF you sign the release and  IF it revokes all future rights. 
I think the proper action is to respond to the agency you reported Valor to. Part of the process is if Valors remedy is unacceptable to you to let the complaint agency know. You don't have to accept no add on deposits or add on deposit with signed release if neither are acceptable to you. Tell the agency you filed with that an acceptable resolution was not proposed by Valor. 
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #70
Why not make an offer of what $s you want to add to your account, ask for reply and/or confirm no action.  Then put the money in another institution for the same term and at ___ interest rate, then sue them for the difference rates and rescission of the contract...but first check where/if disputes must be settled a certain way.  But if they allow you to put more in with the release, do you really want, i.e. trust doing, business with that type of organization?  Due diligence time may be after the fact now but to get burned twice??
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #77
Are they are purposely acting incompetent to create fear?  I wouldn't put it past them.  Their balance sheet is out of whack.  They suspended the EWP and added a vague reminder about NCUA insurance coverage limits, which was not entirely accurate, likely hoping we would withdraw money to help their ratios. I'm keeping my money there and earning the 3% because I know I'm properly covered if they tank. 
jimbeau
jimbeau   |     |   Comment #88
If you read the fine print, a CD is just a term deposit for a set interest rate and a specific amount of money.   Early withdrawal penalties and add-on options may seem to be part of the deal but, in fact, are just "features".   These "features" can be rescinded at any time.  This is particularly true if it's to protect the financial well-being of the credit union.  Does anyone know of anyone winning a complaint or a lawsuit for rescinding "features"?
   
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #93
Your argument sounds plausible but seems to be unsubstantiated by regulation. If you read the regulation (link provided by Francis1 below in #71), EWPs and deposit limitations are required to be included in the truth in savings agreement.  If you read the next section of the regulation, a change in any of the eight subsets of disclosure content requires notice.  At least that's how it reads to me.
Francis1
Francis1   |     |   Comment #97
That is only half true. To recind any feature, as you call it, requires a minimum of 30 days advance notice. Valor gave no notice. How do I know that? It's in the NCUA regulations.
 707.5 Subsequent disclosures.(a) Change in terms(1) Advance notice required. A credit union shall give advance notice to affected members of any change in a term required to be disclosed under § 707.4(b), if the change may reduce the annual percentage yield or adversely affect the member. The notice shall include the effective date of the change. The notice shall be mailed or delivered at least 30 calendar days before the effective date of the change.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #46
#27 posted as follows:

"Valor management would have to be completely insane to make the $25,000 offer to some members having Prime Rate Certificates and not to others.  They simply could not be that foolish.  Could they?"

It's back up there and you can search it out if you wish, or if you doubt me.  Here is my answer to #27:

Yes, they could and they are!  Against all logic and contrary to a rudimentary sense of fairness, I now have substantial reason to believe Valor is making the $25,000 offer to some of us . . . while withholding the offer from others of us.  You might reasonably inquire regarding the basis for the discrimination.  I do not know.  But Valor policy on this matter is not fair and evenhanded;  there is discrimination.  Of that I am all but certain.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #48
the basis of the discrimination is to placate the people who complained.   They are the only ones getting the offer.  No one should be placated
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #50
Board Election Call to Action Dear Member, Valor Credit Union has partnered with Survey & Ballot Systems (SBS) to administer the 2016 election. To assure your election specific broadcast email arrives safely in your inbox between March 1-2, 2016, simply add the following email address as an approved sender: noreply@directvote.net We look forward to your participation in this important credit union election.
Have Coward
Have Coward (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #51
Had a conversation with a Coward Rep.  The rep did not admit of course, but I get a sense that they are discriminating among members by sending release only to members who have complained.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #53
i filed a complaint have yet to get the offer.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #52
Gosh these Valor people are massively messed up.  I bet they hate the internet.  How else would their customers be able to share experiences and get to the truth of the c-rap they are trying to pull.

Anyway, it's time to file a complaint.  I don't think that could be a lot more obvious.

Like:  Duhhhhhh.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #56
Forget the idea that the NCUA will put a stop to this kind of behavior by a CU. As a few comments in this tread have pointed out, the mess at Fort Knox FCU clearly showed that the NCUA is toothless.
Posters like "Yield Hunter" (in comment #39) are part of the problem. According to the myth this poster talks about, every contract contains an 'escape' clause that allows the CU to change any or all terms of the contract. Of course, when you look for this clause it is supposedly found in some language that can only be interpreted by the CU. As pointed out by another poster, "Anon456" (in comment #45) if this is legal, then the CU could do a number of things that almost anyone (probably even "Yield Hunter") would consider to be illegal. Read his post and I am sure you will agree that a one-sided contract like this would be a farce that no one would agree to.  
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #57
Fraud and misrepresentation!
Yield Hunter
Yield Hunter (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #58
To # 56.

To say that the Prime Rate CD has no 'escape clause' literally means that you did not comprehend what was literally written on the certificate.  I'm not saying that you cannot read.  I'm saying that the wording of them having the ability to change the terms and conditions of the contract are clearly stated on the contract!  You either acknowledge the fact that those words-along with their intended meaning are there,...or you don't.

The fact is that they do have the right to do it.  That is why they are doing it!  Make sure your anger is directed the right way.  Don't be mad at me for saying the truth.  You should be mad at yourself not not fully reading the contract and understanding it.  But on this issue, I can save you some time by just understanding that ALL financial institutions [Banks, credit unions, insurance companies....] have an 'out' clause.  Ever hear of an insurance company NOT covering a claim that was made?  That's because of their out clause.  You really should read the fine print very carefully. 

Oh, and by the way, I am not part of the problem.  I'm really trying to be helpful.  Look at the facts before you judge someone so fast.

 
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #59
"you did not comprehend."  The customer needs have meaningful disclosure so that there is no issue as to what to comprehend....if in doubt, tie goes to the runner, i.e. the non-drafter!  CU, you lose! 
Yield Hunter
Yield Hunter (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #60
I would agree that if there was a 'tie', the depositor would win.  But you see, for that to happen, the contract must be written that way.  That's how it works.  First there are rules, and then you play by them.  When Valor's contract states that they have the right to alter or change the terms and conditions right on the CD itself, then that's exactly what they mean.  If you didn't like that clause, then you shouldn't have purchased the CD.  Nobody forced you to.  You chose to.

Again, EVERY financial contract has an  escape clause.  They have for a very long time.  It's uncomfortable at times to swallow, but it is factual reality.  The model is always the same, and it's a simple one to understand.  When things are going good, you get the good version of the contract.  When they are going bad, you get switched over to the less lucrative version.  This is why Valor is changing the 'terms' because you signed a contract that states they have the right to.  I hate this just as much as you do but understand why they are doing it and hope to heck that they can fix things and save the institution.  My income depends on it.
Yield Hunter
Yield Hunter (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #61
BTW, it is my understanding that only the 'features' of an account can potentially be changed.  Things like the additional deposit feature.  The interest rate and duration of that rate are fixed and set in stone...unless the depositor withdraws the account early, or the bank/CU fails.  Of course Valor is currently allowing their Prime Rate Certificate holders to withdraw their money [all or part] without any penalties, but you don't have to if you don't want to.

Sidenote:  I wish they'd bring back the Tontine and do it right this time.  We'd all be earning a lot more money as a result.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #64
Yield Hunter,
Where are you getting your information to form your "understanding"? Please quote from any CU document you have that says some features can be changed unilaterally by the CU and others cannot. Does it say some are "set in stone" and others are not. Your idea of an "escape' clause is convenient for a CU but it is pure hogwash. If I am wrong, please quote directly from the CU  agreement where you get these novel ideas and I will gladly give you an apology. If you can't, you should offer an apology to the readers of this blog. Please reply or quit posting like you know what you are talking about.
jimbeau
jimbeau   |     |   Comment #90
Well, he does know what he's talking about.   Unless you can cite case law that shows otherwise, I suggest that you stop posting!    A CD is just a term deposit for a set amount of money, for a set amount of time, for a set interest rate.  Everything else are features.  That's why their called features!    Changing the early withdrawl penalty would seem to be something that can't be changed.  However, by opening a CD you are accepting a specific term.   This term is not contingent on the early withdrawl penalty.    To prevent runs on financial institutions, the government gives them considerable flexibility.   This is particularly true in supposed "rising rate" environments where people want out of their CD's to get a better rate somewhere else.  The same is true for add-on features.  If the powers that be think that the add-on feature is going to sink the financial institution, kiss that baby goodbye!   Of all people, credit union members should understand that fact.  Jeapardizing the credit union so that a few fat cats can excercise their add-on feature is beyond the pale!
Francis1
Francis1   |     |   Comment #98
 recind any feature requires a minimum of 30 days advance notice. Valor gave no notice. The feature violated was restricting deposits or withdrawals after the original agreement went into affect. How do I know that? It's in the NCUA regulations.
 707.5 Subsequent disclosures.(a) Change in terms(1) Advance notice required. A credit union shall give advance notice to affected members of any change in a term required to be disclosed under § 707.4(b), if the change may reduce the annual percentage yield or adversely affect the member. The notice shall include the effective date of the change. The notice shall be mailed or delivered at least 30 calendar days before the effective date of the change.
Ed
Ed (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #63
Thank God I didn't open the CD with Valor (aka Tobyhanna).

They smelled sleazy from the beginning and I was tempted by the 3% rate. However, after realizing the too good to be true notion of unlimited add-on deposits, the inability to cash out the monthly dividends, and the 7 year lock up rate....I passed. Hallelujah.

And I remembered people just putting in $2,500 with the intent of loading up if the future interest rates take a dump...which it did. Pie in sky deals arre usually scams.
Yield Hunter
Yield Hunter (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #65
Reply to comment #64

In response to #64's reply,  first, physically hold your Prime Rate CD in your hands and read the 3rd line from the top.  It should say "terms, conditions and penalties may vary due to Certificate type.  My signature above acknowledges receipt of the appropriate disclosure prior to entering into this contract".  This means two things:  1.) These Prime Rate certificates vary depending on when you purchased it.  Their terms and conditions are NOT all the same.  2.) To know exactly what terms and conditions apply to your specific CD, you must read the appropriate disclosure statement that went along with it.  The CD literally states on it the following..." My signature above acknowledges receipt of the appropriate disclosure prior to entering into this agreement".  What that means is that by signing the CD [which you must do to open it],  you are agreeing to the terms and conditions as stated in the accompanying disclosure statement that went with the CD.  Whatever your disclosure statement says....those are your rules.

Since there are several slightly different versions of this CD, the only way to know specifically which rules apply to you is to read the specific disclosure statement that came with your CD.  I will admit that it is possible that you have a different disclosure statement [set of rules] than I do since there are a few different version of this CD out there.  it just depends on when you purchased it.

I also want to mention that my particular CD clearly states in a box in the lower right hand corner that "dividends are calculated on the actual share certificate balance from the date of issuance to the date of maturity" and then an "x" is placed in the box that says "Dividends will be paid monthly".    In other words, my CD says that I CAN receive dividends monthly [interest], and in the past I HAVE received a monthly interest payment as i set it up that way.    But please realize that this is what my account says.  Others may have a different version of this account as there are several varying versions of it.  I know this to be true because I have several of these Prime Rate CDs that I have purchased over several years and the accompanying disclosure statements are significantly different.  For example, one of the earlier ones has a 6 mos early withdrawal penalty while a more recent one has a 2 year EWP.

My advice to you is to read your CDs disclosure statement carefully as that is your legally binding contract irregardless of what others certificates may say.   If for some reason you don't have your disclosure statement [or never had it, or read it], then you should not have signed the certificate acknowledging that you have received it!

Tip:  If for some reason anyone needs a copy of their CDs disclosure statement, be absolutely sure that it is the one that applies to your specific CD.  They are date specific and can vary a lot.  Be sure the disclosure statement is the one that was in effect on the date that you purchased your CD.  Again, they DO vary depending when the CD was purchased.
Francis1
Francis1   |     |   Comment #71
That's good advice, to always read the find print. Here's some more fine print from the NCUA where you are required to give a minimum of 30 days notice to make changes in term deposits.
 707.5 Subsequent disclosures.(a) Change in terms(1) Advance notice required. A credit union shall give advance notice to affected members of any change in a term required to be disclosed under § 707.4(b), if the change may reduce the annual percentage yield or adversely affect the member. The notice shall include the effective date of the change. The notice shall be mailed or delivered at least 30 calendar days before the effective date of the change.
Also, the regulations state a restriction on the number of deposits or withdrawals agreed to is a change requiring the 30 day notice. 
Valor gave us NO NOTICE. 
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #73
What is the definition of "adverse"? Would it be adverse to stop add ons? I have an NWFCU CD @ 3%. I upped to the max 100K toake sure I wouldn't have problems
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #76
Ceasing an add-on feature, thereby reducing the earning potential of the product which originally attracted customers to enter into the agreement, can arguably be an adverse change requiring appropriate notice as prescribed under NCUA regulation.  
Al
Al (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #80
Yes. Like the person reasonably relying on the add-on representation to anticipate being able to send a million. Or the other person thinking his product will allow his IRA add on.  How is that not an adverse change to customers?  
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #83
That's your opinion. I: m sure the bank has theirs
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #84
You didn't add much with that comment. Of course the bank has a different opinion or they wouldn't have the decisions they did. I don't have anything to add to my CD so I'm  happy with the 3% we have.  If I had money to add to it, then I might have a different opinion but I wouldn't waste my time with this place. I'd go elsewhere. 
Francis1
Francis1   |     |   Comment #99
Yes I believe it would. You have to read section 707.4 to find what an adverse event is. Look it up or I'll save you the time. The pertinent section of 707.4 is:
 (5) Transaction limitations. Any limitations on the number or dollar amount of withdrawals or deposits.
So really Valor had two violations. Eliminating further deposits and eliminating the cap of 100k for those that had that restriction. The earlier cds had an unlimited deposit provision. 
Inforay
Inforay   |     |   Comment #91
Francis1, thank you for the research.  I was trying to find out about the 30-day notice requirement and it certainly looks like you are correct.  When I called Valor to ask about the $25,000 offer made to some of the members, I eventually was able to speak to a senior representative who was really cagey.  He said he was not permitted to discuss other members' accounts and said that as of now, the policy was that no add-ons were permitted.  When I mentioned about reading about the $25,000 offer made to some members he refused to respond, telling me that I was free to file a complaint if I wanted to. So clearly, it appears that this offer has been made to a select group of members and not to all members.  He would not tell me how this group (to whom offers were made) was selected.  So in addition to being deceptive, it looks like they are also discriminating.
lou
lou   |     |   Comment #105
Yield Hunter, the certificate that has a 6-month penalty must pre-date 2013. I have ones with a 12-month penalty that were bought in April of 2013. Do those certificates with the 6-month penalty come with the same interest rate floor of 3%? Also, when did you buy them and was membership in Tobyhanna open to the general public by joining an association at the time?
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #66
When I joined my company one of the benefits was retired health benefits. These benefits were pulled from most of is as a provision was added that the plan could be be modified or terminated. Those employees who were with the company before the company added the provision kept that benefit. The CD agreement is made by the institution's lawyers to protect their interests , not the customers unless it is mandated by law.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #67
Let's face reality:  Depositaccounts.com is slaying Valor Credit Union.  There are two key contributing factors to this phenomenon:

1. Ken provides us here a venue for focused discussion of Valor's questionable activities
2.  It is possible here for Valor members to make revelations anonymously

Bear carefully in mind that in such situations as this Valor management has engaged legal counsel.  That legal counsel is equally as aware of this forum as anyone else posting here.  That legal counsel has only one purpose, to wit, to defend Valor Credit Union, its leaders, and the kind of c-rap they are perpetrating against members.  Thus:

It manifestly serves the purposes of such counsel to come in here and spread FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt), while putting forth arguments which are exculpatory for the credit union.  If, by and through such writing, counsel can reduce or minimize the number of formal complaints, then counsel is earning their money.

Valor leaders twice have demonstrated their inability to distinguish between right and wrong.

First, they changed the terms of the Prime Rate certificates without any notice whatsoever to members.

Second, and even more egregious, they turned around and offered a special deal to some members, while denying that same deal to other members.  At Valor Credit Union, all members are NOT created equal!!

It is going to take more than a cadre of slimy Scranton lawyers to save Valor on this one.  The credit union is WAY over the line!! 
Michael Abramson
Michael Abramson   |     |   Comment #72
My complaint to CFPB was forwarded to NCUA and I have NOT received a certified letter with $25K add-on deposit offer from Valor. I am primarily interested in the add-on capability of my Traditional IRA Valor Prime Rate CD since traditional IRA CD's are typically long term anyway and Ii is usually cumbersome to transfer traditional IRAs. I had planned to do a large Traditional IRA  transfer in July to Valor and the $25K add-on offer will not solve my problem. I am not planning to sign Valor's $25k add-on offer (if I ever receive it) and I would NOT like to give
up the opportunity to sue Valor. I am hoping there is a class action lawsuit against Valor coming soon.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #75
Then stop whining on a blog and initiate a class action with all of your big bucks. 
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #82
If people attack this CU it will go down and you will lose what you have. If it goes under no suit and you will get your funds back and then see what rate you get. I doubt any firm would take the case.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #85
I agree. If this guy has a significant amount of money he wants to deposit there, then why wish a class action on the company?  How are you going to win if you take it under?  We all lose in that case. I think we should cut our losses with this bank. 
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #103
A class action suit would take years to go through the courts
Bozo
Bozo   |     |   Comment #74
My goodness. All this fuss (68 comments thus far).

Folks, take a deep breath. The initial danger sign was when Tobyhanna changed its name to Valor. The concept of a credit union actually having the name "Tobyhanna" was unique. The fact that it was a teeny, tiny credit union was overlooked. Then, (drumbeat) VALOR appeared, with a CD add-on at 3%+.

Seriously, did anyone actually believe the hype?
Sylvia
Sylvia   |     |   Comment #107
The add-on CD preceded the name change by a number of years.  I was told by a rep back in 2014 that the CD had been around since 2009.  Otherwise, I do agree the name change, and surrounding hype, was an example of the CU's overreach.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #78
Also at some point the CU stopped financing student loans
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #79
Loans that were current were called in in 2008 et al b/c the lender needed funds for capital requirements.  Sooooooo, even if you have a loan, check the terms and see if it can be called in.  Also, the State Attorney Generals have oversight for some non-profits especially those incorporated or operating in their jurisdiction...contact them, too, for deceptive practices, etc.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #96
Most loans and mortgages have a call feature for both parties. They can call your loan or you can refinance which is you calling the loan.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #101
Not entirely true.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #94
Yield Hunter,
Your reply to comment #64 does not answer his or her questions. Please post the exact wording on your certificate that says the CU can unilaterally change any or all of the terms (like interest rate, withdrawal penalty. ad-on provisions, etc). If what you say is true, why would anyone purchase a CD? Talk about a pig in a polk!
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #95
Back in 2014, I think this guy's comment pretty much predicted the future of Toby:

"Hope everything works well, but have you ever wondered why Toby would stretch out on this when they could get  investors just as eager to go for a standard 7 year 3.04% cd without any obligations for the add on feature that would go south on them if interest rates go lower?  Also, they pay more if the prime rate goes over 6.29%  (However this  is not likely to happen in the 7 year term)   Something is not adding up on this so that is why I am a little hesitant to jump at it.  What is in this deal for Toby? Is there small writing in the disclosure that maybe they can lower the minimum rate later?  If what poster no. 9 says is true about the CFO, that would be even more reason to maybe stay away.  Anyway, good luck and I hope it works out.  It is NCUA insured, so no principal should be lost in the deal."
Francis1
Francis1   |     |   Comment #100
Just wanted to sum up what I learned in this thread. First, to those who filed official complaints you were asked what a proper resolution would be. I assume most said to reinstate the original terms which include add on deposits. If you received a letter from Valor that was their COUNTER OFFER. It is not set in stone you have to accept it. Simply report back to the agency in which you filed your complaint and say Valor's proposed counter offer is unacceptable. Start the cycle of Valor having to respond to your new complaint.
There is a lot of half truths in some of the posts. Makes me wonder if they are from Valor themselves. Things like differentiating between terms and rates and add on features. It's simple. Just look at the NCUA regulations. You can call add on deposits a feature if you want but NCUA regulations require a minimum of 30 days notice if a CU changes certain things regarding term deposits over 1 year maturity. One is if they change the number of allowed deposits or withdrawals. This clearly includes add on deposits. This is where Valor made an obvious mistake by not giving the 30 day notice. You have to read section 707.4 to find what an adverse event is. Look it up or I'll save you the time. The pertinent section of 707.4 is:
(5) Transaction limitations. Any limitations on the number or dollar amount of withdrawals or deposits.
So really Valor had two violations. Eliminating further deposits and eliminating the cap of 100k for those that had that restriction. The earlier cds had an unlimited deposit provision.
707.5 Subsequent disclosures.(a) Change in terms(1) Advance notice required. A credit union shall give advance notice to affected members of any change in a term required to be disclosed under § 707.4(b), if the change may reduce the annual percentage yield or adversely affect the member. The notice shall include the effective date of the change. The notice shall be mailed or delivered at least 30 calendar days before the effective date of the change.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #102
One thing lacking in the regulations is the penalties if they are not followed. In my opinion the NCUA would rather not bail out a CU. If they make Valor honor the add on feature will it cause the CU to fail and everyone loses? Or should the CU be closed for not adhering to the regulations?
Francis1
Francis1   |     |   Comment #104
Probably what's best right now is for Valor to be taken over by another credit union if the NCUA finds a taker. Yes, the depositors would lose the 3% rate but it is not a total loss. You could take NASA credit union up on their 49 month 2.3% cd offer. The thing is it's not only this cd that's sinking Valor. They signed a deal for naming rights to a high school stadium in Scranton for 500k http://creditunionwatch.blogspot.com/2015/05/valor-cu-pays-500000-for-stadium-naming.html. Why not try to renegotiate this? To me this is bigger than just then keeping the 3% rate. It's about holding Valor to what they offered us and not setting a precedent other banks or credit unions may follow. I recently opened a NASA cd so free money left to give to Valor is actually quite low. A 25k limit will work quite well for me.  But I feel I invested in this product in good faith to add deposits over the full term. Valor obviously counted on interest rates rising quicker than there are and they were wrong. So the depositors should pay for their interest rate direction bet? No we shouldn't. If rate rose quicker than expected and we're at 4% now would they let us remove out money? Of course not. 
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #110
A typical Lou response.  So what if he talked to them.  Insolvency would be bad for Lou's sizable deposits at this credit union and that's the only thing he is worried about. 
lou
lou   |     |   Comment #119
Well, I guess on this board if you tell the truth and try to reason with people, you get your posts deleted. Trust me, I could care less if people want to fight with this credit union, have at it. It's a waste of time because the add-on feature is never coming back. But if it makes people feel better, who am I to tell them otherwise.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #114
You are correct, Valor is just following the orders from NCUA, however, Valor is hiding the most important part, they have more deposits than investments to cover the liabilities and this may be the first attempt by NCUA to force Valor to close those CDs or find a more profitable investments to cover the interest on those CDs or they may be shut down.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #108
Honestly there's only two stances and two related outcomes in regards to Valor and the Prime Rate CD.   Accept that the add-on provision is over and be happy with earning a premium rate on its remaining years to maturity, - or fight Valor by appealing to the NCUA for a restoration or some remedy and force the CU out of existence, with the consequent lowering of the Certificate's rate sure to follow.

I suspect those fighting don't truly believe their efforts will be successful, and thus can feel both very principled over their protests and yet still end up receiving the high rate they covet.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #109
To #67

You mentioned Valor lawyers (counsel you called them) posting here.  You're right, but you missed some stuff:

Valor higher ups and board members could also be posting here, anonymously of course.  Valor members who already have large Prime Rate Certificate balances could also be posting here.

All such persons, not just Valor lawyers, are going to be posting in a manner sympathetic to Valor because all such persons have something to lose if Valor is deep sixed.  Also, all such persons are going to be supportive of the new, unfair $25,000 add-on deposit benefit, where not everyone is included.

This is a wide open forum and anyone can post here within Ken's rules.  People need to bear that fact in mind.  To understand the various biases you find expressed, you have only to follow the money.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #111
Prime example of posting in a manner sympathetic to Valor is comment#106 above.  He has large deposits at the credit union and is being rude to others like Francis while trying to persuade everyone to just roll over and accept the add on is gone because he does not want his sweet deal to end. 
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #112
We need to be careful that we do not start to invent a Conspiracy Theory.  Filter each entry with intellect sprinkled with CAUTION.  What if the timeline in the matter of Valor, and any consequential legal action or take-over, intersects with the Fed implementing a "negative interest rate" (as we have seen in other countries)?  Suddenly we could find ourselves having killed the "golden goose" all in the name of higher principles!
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #117
If the timelines intersect, whoever takes over will probably just take a page from Valor's playbook and dust off the 3% fee Valor tried to push through before.  They won't hesitate to impose fees as their response to negative interest rates.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #118
They will cancel the current CD rate and all aspects thereof!  You'll have 30 days to withdraw funds or accept their new rate
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #121
Wow!  Thirty days' notice!  That would be a luxury compared with the Valor norm.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #113
The Valor has more money in deposits than in invested security and that is a huge problem. Only way out is to close those CDs and or be shut down by NCUA. The accumulated interest in those CDs can not be paid by Valor now and that makes them insolvent.
Bozo
Bozo   |     |   Comment #120
Wow, a gazillion comments. I still think "Tobyhanna" was a cute name for a credit union. It all went downhill when it became "Valor".
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #123
Got a reply to my ncua complaint from valor They essentailly state that they have the right to do what they did based on the terms in the agreement and they are denying changing it back (my request to the ncua )
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #124
Send it all to Sen. Liz Warren
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #125
Did you read the contract you signed when opening the account?  Valor is correct.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #127
"Valor is correct"

You're close, except for the "e" and the "c".  In reality, "Valor is corrupt".
dave9354
dave9354   |     |   Comment #126
I have received my ballot to vote for the Board of Directors. It is time to remove the incumbents and start with a new Board at Valor!
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #128
Received earlier today the anticipated response to my complaint.  As with everyone else, they are forwarding to NCUA.

In mine I raised the add-on cancellation matter.  Guess we already have NCUA's answer to that one.  Not great.

But I raised as a larger issue the discrimination matter.  It will be interesting to see how the NCUA sloughs that one off . . if they deign to respond to the matter at all.  WABOA 
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #129
What about the fact that there was NO notice given? Didn't someone post that the NCUA requires credit unions to give 30 days or am I wrong? Valor gave NO notice, it was immediate. Did the NCUA respond to that? If the NCUA requires at least a 30-day written notice before changes, than that would take precedent. It doesn't matter if a credit union can change terms, if they, for instance, say in their agreement that they will charge 5% more on loans to people of Albanian hertiage, regardless if it's in their bylaws, that runs afoul of other laws that override it.

Am I wrong in understanding that the NCUA requires a 30 days notice BEFORE changes, or can they just get out of their agreements on a dime with absolutely NO time for their members to adjust? To those that received replies from the NCUA, what did they say about that?
Francis1
Francis1   |     |   Comment #130
The NCUA regulation is:

§707.5 Subsequent disclosures.

(a) Change in terms—(1) Advance notice required. A credit union shall give advance notice to affected members of any change in a term required to be disclosed under §707.4(b), if the change may reduce the annual percentage yield or adversely affect the member. The notice shall include the effective date of the change. The notice shall be mailed or delivered at least 30 calendar days before the effective date of the change.

So if you look at 707.4(b) it lists what changes require advance notice. A snippet from that section:

(b) Content of account disclosures. Account disclosures shall include the following, as applicable:

(5) Transaction limitations. Any limitations on the number or dollar amount of withdrawals or deposits.

It appears that they can't change the number or dollar amounts of deposits from what you agreed to without a minimum of a 30 day notice. But that doesn't stop them from asking you (via a letter) if you will sign a release, deposit some additional money, and go on your way. If that is good for you then take that option. But they have totally ignored addressing the 30 day required notice.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #131
Your post is very well taken.  Thank you.  I believe their failure to offer notice is a more self-evident rules violation than their discrimination as mentioned by the earlier poster (#128).  However, that does not mean I view their obvious discrimination as a small thing;  not at all.

Taken together, notice failure and discrimination are two rather serious indictments of Valor credit union.  I believe the NCUA must either act to defend Valor members or relinquish its pretense of honesty and fairness.
lou
lou   |     |   Comment #132
Show me any Valor/Tobyhanna agreement or disclosure document that includes the add-on feature. I'm not sure the 30-day notice would apply if the add-on feature hasn't been codified in any official or legal document.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #133
Kidding.  Right?  You have to be kidding.

But you do have a marvelous sense of humor!
lou
lou   |     |   Comment #134
Come on big guy, show me the document?
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #135
Ha!  Ha!  You must really have a lot of money in Valor at 3% that you're afraid will not go to maturity following any failure of the CU. 
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #136
Hey #135 cut it out.  Stop picking on poor lou!!

He obviously has a lot to lose, or else he has some other form of vested interest in seeing Valor survive.  I will admit his posts are pretty funny, though.
gregk
gregk (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #137
I'll laugh too IF someone can produce the document Lou's asking for OR intelligently rebut his argument.
GreatGoobersGhost
GreatGoobersGhost (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #138
Is there a document that says there's an Add-On Feature? Yes.
Is there a document that says it'll be at least 3%? Yes.
Is there a document that says it's a 7 year term? Yes
Is there a document that says it's with Tobyhanna (Valor), not Bank of America or Wells Fargo?
Yes.
It's called the Cerficate of Deposit Agreement.
Right on the same document it states the interest rate (call it what you will, but it states the interest rate). Right on the same page it states the name of the institution, before their name change (call it what you will, but it states the name of the institution). And right on the document it states "Additional Deposits Allowed At Any Time" Call it what you will, but it clearly states that Additional Deposits can be made at any time).
lou
lou   |     |   Comment #139
My Certificate of Deposit Agreements make no reference to allowing additional deposits.  Anyone else have a CD agreement like the one Ghost is claiming?
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #140
#138 and #139
I suggest you post the date of your CD's along with the term.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #141
Mine says it as well. If you have one (and are not just posting as someone who doesn't have a Prime Rate CD), look closely at yours, you'll find it.

Tobyhanna (now Valor)  Certificate Account Agreement -- all on one page:
Talks about the grace period at renewal time (7 days), Certificate Type (Prime Rate Certificate), Account Number, Social Security Number, Minimum Amount ($1,000), Minimum Qualifying Period (84 months), Date of Issuance, Maturity Date, Principal Amount, Name/Address, Beneficiaries & their percentages.
Look in the lower 1/4th of the page (in the lower part where you, the member, put your signature). It says:
"Rate information: We use the average daily balance to calculate the dividens on this account. The floor rate for this certificate is 3.00% and the ceiling rate is 7.00%. DEPOSITS CAN BE MADE AT ANY TIME."

It's right there in the ACCOUNT AGREEMENT.

And you know what else is on the same page?
Not only MY signature (of the member, binding me to this agreement), but in the upper-right corner of the agreement is the box for "Authorized Credit Union Signature", signed by an authorized representative of the credit union, binding THEM to this agreement as well. And the, right in the middle-left of the page, it says -- in BOLD PRINT AND CAP LETTERS -- "THIS CERTIFICATE IS NON-NEGOTIABLE AND NON-TRANSFERABLE"

But now the credit union is saying it's completely negotiable -- ON THEIR SIDE ONLY (and to add insult to injury, with NO PRIOR NOTICE).

This is the document that MYSELF (the credit union member) AGREED TO and SIGNED, and the CREDIT UNION ITSELF AGREED TO AND SIGNED (a credit union employee signed and dated it where they were it's their place to sign, in the upper-right-hand corner).

But somehow now they think they can get out of any signed, non-negotiable agreement they want to, at any time, without notice, for anything, but their members, of course, cannot do the same.

This is what the CFPB was formed to stop. And if the NCUA refuses to stop it, we all should (I know I WILL) continue this on, making sure everyone knows and has to reply to, or account for this -- from reporters of large local papers, to the head of the CFBP (where it won't just be forwarded to the NCUA) to congresspeople, both local as well as those on the banking committee, to the white house, to social media outlet I have available. I've been patient to see how this works out, but this is a BLATANT violation of banking rules, and if an institution is allowed to get away with this, than agreements mean NOTHING except to bind ONLY THE CONSUMER, and NEVER THE INSTITUTION. If Valor has to be merged, and people lose the 3% if the acquiring institution changes rates, so be at -- at least that's HONEST, ABOVE BOARD, and not FRAUD.
lou
lou   |     |   Comment #143
Okay, I see the language. I must have missed it the first time I read it.

Just so I understand your motivation, did you open the certificate and only put the minimum amount of money into it? Were you planning to add a lot more money at some later date? Sorry, but it still doesn't make sense to me to try to take them down.

Many of us knew the add-on feature could be withdrawn anytime because we've seen this happen before. The CEO of Tobyhanna was obviously a moron for not shutting it down immediately. The irony is he could have attracted as much money as he wanted without the add-on. The 3% rate was more than sufficient to attract funds.

You can pursue them as much as you want; they probably will implode regardless of what you choose to do.  But have fun, hope it makes you feel better.
lou
lou   |     |   Comment #144
One more thing: you are misinterpreting the "non-negotiable" term. It means they are not negotiable from the standpoint that they cannot be bought, sold, exchanged or transferred. In other words, there is no liquid market for them, such as the one you would see for brokerage CDs. You cannot negotiate the price of the CD for the purpose of selling it to a buyer in a secondary market transaction.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #145
If you believed they could change the rules at any time, as you profess, then you were extremely foolish to enter the agreement. To mock those attempting to uphold the agreement is despicable.
Vote
Vote (anonymous)   |     |   Comment #146
For those impacted by Valor's illegal (and the icing on the cake, without ANY advance notice, as required by NCUA) moves, be aware that you can vote in the upcoming board elections, coming up soon. Here are a list of the candidates:
https://www.valorcu.org/posts/bod-election-2016.html
If you want to change out the board, here's your chance to do so.

On a personal level, I'm sure none of these bad people, but a financial institution has to take responsiblity for its actions and honor its agreements -- otherwise it has no right or reason to exist in current form. Such a credit union, without any trust, is worthless and does not serve the community. Make no mistake, if I walked into a branch tomorrow and unilaterally demanded that they make my car loan, home loan and credit card interest free for the next 23 years because [insert reason here], they would not (nor should they). Members made decisions (that cannot be revisted now with the passage of time) based on a signed, written, non-negotiable agreement with the credit union and they must take responsibility, regardless if it was previous management's fault, and find some way to survive it, or find a way to exist in another form.

So there you have the link to the bios, and if you are a credit union member, you should have received an email with a link to vote (if not, call them up and demand for a way to vote).

It might not be such a bad thing to merge with another credit union; it would certanly benefit the community and its members, more than being stuck with a credit union that feels it can simply get out of any agreements anytime it wishes to now (without even any prior notice, completely blowing off NCUA regulations) with no trust. I understand the predicament they're in, believe me, but a financial institution has to honor its agreements, or come back as another entity -- for if it doesn't, ANY dealings with the entity that it currently is, literally isn't worth the paper its printed on.

Cast your vote.
Anonymous
Anonymous   |     |   Comment #147
Agreed, agreed, and agreed.  But, hey, you forgot to mention their having offered additional $25,000 headroom to some members holding this certificate AND NOT TO OTHERS!!

If that kind of discrimination is not against NCUA rules it ought to be.  One thing for sure:  it is despicable!!!!!!!!

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