Save Our Savers - Asking Government for a Fair Deal For Savers

"I'm afraid in both the UK and in the US, borrowers get much more attention than savers. When the economy weakens, the government's focus is not on helping savers. "

Sadly, this is because savers are a minority in both countries. The majority of people in the US have a much higher balance of debt than they have of savings.

Unfortunately, since politics is about catering to the majority (at least in a democracy) I don't see much coming out of this initiative. Politicians are much more likely to cater to the majority of debtors than to the minority of savers.

BTW, this is not a new debate. It's been going on in the US at least since the 1890s during the debate over "cheap money" vs. silver. One side wanted inflation, to benefit the debtors, and the other side didn't. The debtors won out in the end and they will probably continue to win out as long as they outnumber the savers.

It's becoming more evident by the day that neither the Administration nor Congress has the foggiest idea how to revive the economy. I understand that ideologues on all sides have proposed their panaceas for this problem, especially spending cuts and/or tax increases. This isn't the forum to debate that. However, be that as it may, the one thing Congress isn't going to view favorably is yet another omibus proposal that further reduces tax revenue. To this end. the Bipartisan Tax Fairness and Simplification Act of 2010 included a provision to end the ability to defer taxes on U.S. Savings Bond interest. Since low interest rates for savers already reduce government tax revenue, there's no benefit in further diminishing that source of taxation. The bottom line now appears to be that, if savers need to increase their earnings, they're going to have to abandon CDs and in favor of riskier investments.

Why help someone who is drowning in debt, makes no sense, sooner or later they will file for bankruptcy and why help someone with borrowed money on first place.
They never used savings to get in debt, they used someone else’s money and they promise to pay it back, if they don’t. they have lost nothing at all.
How to tell that to the law makers, they do not understand the basics of personal finance, are all incapable of comprehending debt, are selfish bustards and only care for their own personal benefits. 

How can we ask for fair treatment for savers.The reason for mandated saver  low interest rates by the govt is banks and financial institutions can get money at basically 0% from the federal reserve and paper over their fiscal losses brought about by their stupidity and thievery.but their a higher moral purpose.they have to pay out their large bonuses.

What a great article and a thing for the Brits to do concerning their low interest rates for savers.  We DO need something like that in the US!  I have written so many letters to Obama, and my senators about this very same problem but feel like a "lone voice crying in the wilderness to deaf ears".  If I can figure how to cut and paste that article, I would love to email it to them so they can see that at least the British are also crying out about this shame against savers.  Thanks, Ken for bringing this to our attention.  I do agree with the British and applaud them for taking some action about this.  If only we can get more American savers to join together to make our government aware that we feel the same as the British.   

Ok, people.  I just sent that British website to Obama, Bernanke, Geitner, McConnell, Yarmuth, Rand Paul, and anyone else I felt should know what is going on with the British and I do hope will be the same from some caring, activists US savers.  I do hope others will do the same.  We should at least have the spunk to follow in the footsteps of our British family, imo.

Between 2001-2006, a friend parked most of her savings in I Bonds as a protection from from inflation.  You all know how the CPI has been.  We all know that we have inflation but it does not show up in the CPI, the reason is simple, our wages, social security payments, pensions, and External Debt interest is linked to CPI.  She is confused, she does not know whether to keep the money in these ow int paying I bonds or to cash them out.  She will have to pay higher taxes on accrued interest. There is inflation every where but does not sow in monthly CPI. 

just head down to the pub for a few pints  as simple as that cherrio

From: http://www.hussman.net/wmc/wmc110815.htm

"Without question, one of the notions buoying Wall Street optimism here is the hope that the Fed will pull another rabbit out of its hat by initiating QE3. That's a nice sentiment, but it does overlook one minor detail. QE2 didn't work.

Actually, that's not quite fair. The Federal Reserve was indeed successful at provoking a speculative frenzy in the financial markets, which has now been completely wiped out. The Fed was also successful in leveraging its balance sheet by more than 55-to-1 (more than Bear Stearns, Lehman, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, or even Long-Term Capital Management ever achieved), and driving the monetary base to more than 18 cents for every dollar of GDP. The Fed was indeed successful in provoking a wave of commodity hoarding that affected global supplies and injured the poorest of the poor - particularly in developing countries. The Fed was successful in setting off a very predictable decline in the value of the U.S. dollar. The Fed was successful in punishing savers and the risk averse, and driving investors to reach for yield in risky investments that they would normally avoid were it not for the absence of yield. The Fed was successful in provoking those with strong balance sheets to pay down existing higher interest-rate debt, and in creating an incentive for those with weak balance sheets to issue more of it at low rates, resulting in a simultaneous deterioration of credit quality and compensation for risk in the financial system."

I agree with all the comments.  However I think we are powerless to change things.  Letter righting isn't going to do it.  The politicians know exactly what is going on.  The only way to change things is with your vote on election day. 

quote from #2

if savers need to increase their earnings, they're going to have to abandon CDs and in favor of riskier investments.

@#2

If you think I'd listen to that or any other cramerite stock pusher to put my money at any risk your nuts, this is the BS that the clowns on CNBC and the gold bugs keep hammerin on, I been through this thing before, it will change again, for now I deal with the lousy 1% or so and keep my "principle" in tact, it may not be worth as much as before, but its there and available, at this point even if it gets ate up by inflation, its still enough for what I live like, and on. and when not if this turns around, what ever is left will be enough at the than rates to keep going. I don't plan on leaving anything behind cept the dust anyway.

would be better dust in the wind all we are is just dust in the wind

I think raising interest rates would help everyone but the goverment.    Probably why the Fed is keeping rates low :-)

No stock 4 me: Ouch!!! I understand your reluctance to take on risk.  One question though.  Where in my earlier post did I say anything about stocks?

Here's a good article, a bit loaded up on info, but good readng. At least its more info than the 3 sec the subject gets from the CNBC  crowd.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article29890.html

 

@ 15

well it wasn't the word "stocks" but just the part about  "riskier"  investments, which would assume stocks. anyway I may have added a bit more of my frustration factor in there lol, but you got the point, anyway no harm, I'm OK now, smirks

Sounds like 'no stock' has been burned bad, real bad. Really though, no reason to give up the good fight, 'no stock'....just diversfy and get off the stump. CD's, GE, COP, and CVX will make your outlook look a bit brighter! lol 

"Savers" had better get used to the idea that their money will be stolen, confiscated and otherwise taken in ways that are prohibited by the so-called "Constitution" of the USA, but, in fact, are done everyday.  Inflation, for example, is specifically designed to steal money from savers.  It does not need to exist.  The government deliberately prints more and more dollars, every year, and that is what causes it.  But, it allows governments to spend more and more every year, in order to benefit those who put them into office or keep them there.  It has been this way for thousands of years, all the way back into the days of the Egyptians.  Nothing has really changed.

If you want to keep the money you earn, you need to stop "saving" in the traditional way.  This government is set up to steal from savers who deposit their assets in banks by means of devaluing the unit in which the savings are denominated, namely the U.S. dollar, Euro, pound sterling, etc.  So, save in gold, silver or platinum.  The paper currencies are NOT a legitimate store of wealth and never have been.  The US dollar was successful for two hundred years or so, only because it was "good as gold", namely, it was directly convertible to gold specie (coins).  It no longer is, and now it shares its ignoble nature with the Britich pound and other currencies that have lost almost all their value over the last few hundred years.  Remember, the pound sterling was once exactly that.  One full pound of sterling silver!  Think about it, for a moment...how much is silver worth now?  $40 per ounce.  That means that the pound sterling, if it had maintained the peg to silver, should now be worth $640, if not for the fact that it has been subject to deliberate inflation for 300 years since the peg was eliminated.  So, what is a pound sterling worth now?  Try $1.60.  In other words, the British currency has lost 99.75% of its value!!

Think about this the next time you think about putting your money in a 7 year bank CD that pays 2.25% interest.  Don't be a fool!  Buy gold, silver, and, even smarter, buy platinum (which hasn't gone up as high as the other two in relation to its value in 2008).  Forget about bank accounts, except as a very temporary place to store your buying power for short periods of time, until the stock market collapses (at which time high-dividend paying stocks might be a viable option). 

If you think "savers" are losing money after taxes now, just wait until we get the full consequences of what the Federal Reserve has done to the monetary base.  We will have 100% plus inflation for at least several years, as soon as the economy heals, and your "savings" are going to be destroyed.

Great article tip from no stock 4 me.  I read it all and passed it on to 14 colleagues, friends, relatives.  The whole point of the govt. policy of driving down bank rates is to "entice" savers into riskier investments, i.e., stocks, starting a business, venture capital, etc.   This is a well-documented fact and has been brought out in congressional testimony.   The govt. thinks that riskier investments are more productive for the economy as a whole and more socially-valuable than bank CD's or US savings bonds, for example.  They may be right, but they have gone overboard and hurt the risk-aversive and the savers.  Thanks again for that great article tip.  I refuse to be suckered into the stock market.  Principal must be protected at all costs.  Some stupid stock which the "experts" push becasue it pays a 5% dividend now can be a trap if there is the slightest market downturn.  Do the math.

Don't buy some stock that's being pushed for a 5% dividend.  Buy stocks after the market collapses and that same stock pays a 8% dividend.  Then, when they artificially reflate it, at the expense of savers, you will be sitting pretty.  The idea that "principle must be protected at all costs" is absolute foolishness that will end in you having absolutely nothing.  Savers and bond buyers are surely going to be more or less wiped out over the next ten years.  Your investment in a long term CD or bond will not only not "protect" your principal.  It will cost you 90% of your principal, in terms of the buying power value of your money.

In some sense, those who "save" now, in the form of long term CDs, instead of the suggested gold, silver and platinum, are so narrow-minded and incapable of thinking clearly that they deserve the fate that their government has in store for them.  The government is debasing the currency, which is a very easy thing to do, because it is just paper.  But, habitual savers want to "preserve principal" at all costs.  The cost, of course, will be that the principal will be worth next to nothing, because they are "saving" in a currency that is mere paper, and inherently worth nothing.

Maybe, the government helps society, overall, by stealing money from such people, even if it seems like a violation of fundamental rights.  If a person cannot see past the nose on his face, to observe that which is obvious...that is, that the papers currencies  -- dollar, pound "sterling", Euro, yuan, yen, etc. -- are not suitable as long term stores of wealth, then they deserve to be wiped out, because custody of capital implies some level of wisdom on how to retain it against the best efforts of governments to steal it.  Yet, "savers" continue to do the very things that they are being punished for doing, that is, "saving" in worthless paper. 

The idea of switching to a real currency, like gold, silver and platinum, appeals to me.  That being said, you must understand that most people on this board grew up with the dollar, pound, Euro etc., and are much too narrow minded to change their thinking.  They will lose everything they have, in terms of buying power, by 2015-20, before they wake up.  Then, in a panic, they will drive gold to $20,000 an ounce, and silver/platinum up to proportionally similar astronomical levels, exactly when it is the blow-out period for precious metals.  That will be when the precious metals finally enter bubble territory.  You and I can and will sell gold at $20,000 per ounce, and watch as it collapse to where it should be by that time, which is probably about $12,000 per ounce.

 

One more thing... most of the people on this board are going to buy paper-based long term CDs at a grand interest rate of about 2.24% for 7-10 years, no matter how much you and I critique this foolish behavioral pattern or point out the obvious.  Their money will be stolen by a combination of the banks and the government together, and there is no amount of writing comments or warning them that will have any effect of their self-destructive behavior, so, as for me, this is the last posting.  If my writing here ends up preventing one in a thousand from being robbed, it will have been worth my time.

Say it is not so we need more of your insight to save us

A great way to reward savers and help the housing market would be to allow tax/penalty free withdrawls of 100% of funds up to a reasonable amount, e.g. $250K from IRAs to purchase primary residences and apply this housing exclusion to the redeeming of US Savings bonds.  These two areas already have limited exclusions, in the case of savings bonds, for education, and in the case of IRAs the first $10K for primary residence, so this would merely be an expansion of a precedent, and not a new precedent.

I thought this site was a resource for those looking for the best rates on savings and CDs, not for hyping risky stocks and precious metals.  Those sites are a dime a dozen similar to the talking heads on the worthless financial programs on TV, unlike this site great site of Kens for savers.

People still hyping stocks in this dire financial crisis and precious metals now at astronomical prices, must have just made their own purchases recently and are trying to pump up prices for their own financial gain before dumping them.  A person gains nothing and will even loose money buying high paying dividend stocks if the price of the stock declines and precious metal are forming a giant bubble!

Risky, Risky, Risky! 

At the risk of wasting more time on myopic folks, I did NOT buy gold recently.  I bought when the price was $250, then $580, then $660 per ounce.  But, if I did not convert my savings to gold, back then, I would certainly do it now, as the price is still very low compared to where it relates to the number of dollars that have been printed over the last ten years.  You folks who are still myopic and are saving in the form of paper dollars should be aware that the money supply, M1 (high powered money) has increased by 4.3 times, or 430%, over a 10 year period.  To save at 2.24% rates, and lock yourself in for 10 years is RISKY, RISKY, RISKY.  Actually it is not really RISKY, because there is no risk at all.  It is, in fact, a certainty, with no risk attached, that the money will be worth, at best 1/5th of what it is worth now, in terms of what those dollars will buy, 5-10 years from now. 

When I was saving in paper dollars, I used this site to find good rates on CDs, but, when the government is intentionally debasing the money, only a fool will continue to do that.  I still use this site to find temporary holding places for my cash, as it flows in from my business activity. And, I am thankful that the guy who maintains it keeps looking for the better deals on short term deposit accounts.

But, I am not myopic about "saving". I do put money in some of these MM and checking accounts that pay a dismal 1-1.25% rates, but only as I get ready to buy every dividend stock in sight once the stock market crashes, which it soon will.  After that, what do I care if stocks go down.  I will still get my dividends on most of the stocks, because I will only buy AAA blue chips.  But, in reality, when the full counterfeiting operation of our entirely corrupt Federal Reserve turn back on, again, this time far bigger than ever, I'll get dividends and capital gain.

I think it's sad how some posters think that they can time the market and buy in after it "collapses."  And who is to say what that bottom point is?  I'd rather deal with low bank rates for now than lose principal in a rigged stock market.  Let me tell you about two neighbors (real story) -- one lost a bundle in the market, started with $330K, now it's $225K.  He's back in CD's, earning the lousy rates we all know about.   Other neighbor: never went into the market, started with $290K, has about $315K now, never lost principal or had the stress of neighbor #1.  There's a lesson there.  Leave the market to gamblers, traders and those with a very long timetable to recoup losses.

Wise Old Man - Funniest post of the day!!  You take yourself way too seriously. 

aka w o m and full of himself tambien

wom must be related to breaker 19 goes come back etc

Gert B.,

Why does it matter whether the "bottom" is caught? 

If, for example, wise old men invest in dividend paying stocks that pay an 8% yield, even if it goes below what is paid, the 8% yield is three-fourt times what you'd get in a 10 year CD.  If the economy improves, however, and stocks go up, you get a capital gain to add to your dividend.

Right now, the only logical way forward is to invest ONLY in short term "demand" style deposits, and never CDs or long-term bond issuances, even from the U.S. government.

Best,

John

John -

Gert B. is correct about stocks but failed to mention one thing: in tough economic times, companies that pay high dividends often CUT dividends.  So that 5% dividend, that becomes 8% when the stock drops,--- then is slashed to 4%, 3%, or less as the company or its stock price falters.  Doesn't anyone remember what happened to all those bank stocks that yielded 5-9% in 2008-09???   They started cutting or eliminating their dividends.  Also, re: your post, many do not have the temperment to weather drops in their stock prices/principal.  After all, in some cases, it's best not to hold but just to sell a dropping stock.  Many are doing so now.

Darryl, CFA

First, I had a panic attack after reading WOM's dire warnings about people who buy worthless CDs and how they should stock up on Gold etc.  However, I had to laugh when it dawned on me what would really happen if we CD crazies end up with worthless paper.  Wise Old Man would have to use tons of his Gold etc. to pay to the government in taxes so the gov could build housing projects for the "poor" (us!), and give us Food Stamps, vouchers for clothes, free healthcare etc and anything else we need!  If the gov did not do this there would be such rioting and chaos in the streets that society would be destroyed and WOM would have no place to spend his great pieces of gold!  The gov might even go after the rich to make sure they use their money to take care of the poor.  Kind of like it is already but even in a much bigger way.  So Wise Old Man, keep your Gold but make sure you have it well hidden and safe.  Rioters don't care what they destroy to get what they need especially if society is so bankrupt they can't affort the thousands of police they will need to keep peace.  Now, YOU, have a panic attack and face "your" future.  Have a Great Day! 

For those of you who like stocks and bring the positive of dividend paid, well
it is not that simple.
When you cash the stock back into cash, your capital gain minus taxes and inflation will equal the same money held in a long term CD.
But the risk to lose most of your principal is 10 times bigger when held in stocks instead of CD.
There is no risk reward comparison when the downside is bigger then upside. So, be your own judge, for myself, I have tried the stock approach and CD approach at the same time. and my CD held better then the stocks in the last 5 years until today.
Concluded that, there is no such thing as risk reward and plain old CD. For now, I will stay with the CDs.

I agree with #35.

Like to add that all those supposed expert are telling the average Joe to keep tight while the stocks tumble and not to sell.
But they do the opposite and sell everything on the hint of any trouble anywhere on earth.
Some of your stocks may never come back to the point or value of your purchase and might have to take a loss when sold.
Why exposed your life savings to the wolves?
Don’t trust a word those stock expert are telling you, they want  to control your emotions and to be a proxy and obedient stock investor.
Why they are telling to sit put while they sell. it, is obvious, they don’t want competition and
the more you lose the better for them since they are shorting into the sale and will buy back your stocks at a big discount even while you sit tight and reposition bellow your reference level.

The stock dividend yields are misleading as 1) the underlying stock prices are shaky 2) the dividends are VERY shaky.

There is no such thing as a blue chip anymore.  I tell my clients that DAILY and I am a CPA and CF Planner, 22 years in practice in NY and Fla.  You are speculating in stocks now, not investing.  Sorry.

I would agree with you guys about the fact that it is better to keep money in bank CDs except for one thing.  The government is going to punish us for doing so.  The real inflation rate is already way above what the government reports (see, www.shadowstats.com) and it will surely go higher when and if the economy ever recovers.  But, the only way the economy is going to recover is if American labor gets devalued down to what the rest of the world earns.  To avoid the rioting in the streets, the gov is going to debase the paper currency in a stealthy manner, using inflation.  That makes CDs and long term bonds sure losers. 

I'll keep money in demand deposits, like Capital One's new checking account, and MM accounts from Incredible Bank etc.  Then, when the stock market does collapse, which is logical (especially considering what happened today), I'll do what wise old men say... and buy stocks that service overseas markets where they are not debasing money, and which pay good dividends that will stay good.

Unfortunately, the government is stealing our money, and I, a former saver, realize that I cannot continue to be one.  I will be forced to take risks I don't want to take either, but, what can we do?  With men like Bernanke, who are so closely tied into the corrupt casino-banking system, in charge, we will see our savings destroyed otherwise.

My husband and I have been burned by owned solid, blue-chip stocks which subsequenty lowered their dividends due to hard times.  Two of these had 40-plus consecutive years of dividends INCREASES before 2008.  Not only did this lower our yields, but Wall Street punished these stocks by sending them down in price.  You can imagine how we did.  I'm talking about several stocks in a well-diversified portfolio.  Overall, we lost -16% over a three-year period.  Sorry, 2% CD's look good to us for the time being.

anybody ever hear of them??

Folks, calm down. If you have a CD ladder, today's low rates are but a blip, a hiccup as it were. It seems as if nobody in here has the slightest idea of what a diversified portfolio is. 100% ANYTHING is a terrible idea, whether that is precious metals, stocks, bonds/CDs, or whatever. Some folks over at Bogleheads think anybody who owns CDs is nuts. Some folks here think anybody who holds stocks is nuts. Gold bugs think anybody who owns anything (other than gold) must be nuts. Petitions won't sway central bankers. Only a realization that keeping interest rates in the tank is a failed policy will change their minds. A minority on the Fed already realizes this. When business leaders KNOW that rates will be kept at zero for two more years, no ifs, ands, or buts, why should they do anything NOW? Why should banks lend to YOU when they can effectively borrow at zero and lend it back to the US of A at a higher rate? Better yet, borrow here and carry-trade abroad? It's insane.

After 15 years of CD laddering, the end result is a kick in the pants for having the temerity to be thrifty and self-reliant. The lesson learned is an old one: if you can't lick 'em, join 'em. It's time to go where you are welcomed: become a borrower, and you're a winner. At worst, society will bail you out when you decide stop repaying. A a saver, you are considered a loser, since you are now dubbed "wealthy" and a scourge on society. Tell me I'm wrong, guys..............

quote from 41

"If you have a CD ladder, today's low rates are but a blip, a hiccup as it were."

Agree... I seen rates as high as 12% on CD's, have never seen then this low though for this long, al tho I seen then down in the 1.5% for a while.

This is pretty much what I do, although I am not as "diversified" as you post, I don't do anything but CD's, its my thing, I do spread them out at different banks, as for laddering, right now I don't go past 2 years. I have a nice 6%er coming due in Oct, I already have my cryin towel out lol, but no problem, I'll go to BB&T again with the Can't Loose CD offer, which is 30 months but can be fully withdrawn anytime after 12 months with out any penalty, or left in place is rates are still in suck mode. its at 1.2% for now but may well change by Oct. But at least its a way to get your funds out if things change.

#34 I like your post, gives me better out look on some women, (grin) has more insight than many I know, if things get to that point money won't be the thing to worry about, health and the ability to move will be. Even my 27 years time in a uniform wouldn't be that much help when you deal with the younger mobs, as age and time works against you, besides survival when all you need to do is boil some water or eat some bugs is doable, survival when you have to drag your butt around let alone the gear needed for combat like ops is a different game and takes the stamina of youth, ammo gets heavy and runs out. I know the wet jungle taught me that. Anyway this is way off subject lol, just thought your post was right on is all.

to 40,  4get mutual funds, they are just a shadow stock market, however a money market is fine, I use a money market account to transfer my monthly interest from my CD's to. I use the interest to pay my estimated tax.

To Ken: this topic seems so popular that I think it needs a special place for constant on going posts. I have my ways that work for me, but I think every point should be put in and read.

LOL @ Dave, I hear ya man, and even though your saying it tongue in cheek, its still funny but true, only thing is I been a saver so long due to necessity that I can't bring myself to be in the debt/borrower class, but for those that are its their time, Gen Bernakapart makes sure they and the marketer's are looked after. Although the metal bugs are giving him a pain lol.

Looks like 'no stock for me' is happy driving their used Prius and living in a public HUD housing project, and I do not fault that at all. Congats. As for me though, I hope and prefer to eventually shoot for a bit more, so I will try to mix my CD's with some quality stocks that may provide me with an alternative to a governmental, non-public trough standard of living. 

i have given up on saving and hope others will join me to give the FED the knick in the rear it deserves

with 45 right on

A lot of folks have made a lot of smart comments here, but I came across something that really sums it up.  Marc Faber is editor of the "Gloom, Doom & Boom" report.  Over the years, he's predicted the 2007 housing crash, and the 2008 financial crisis (which I think we continue to be inside of).  He was buying gold when it was $270 per ounce, and continued to do so even up to recently, and he says it will go much higher, just as some on this board believe.

After telling people to sell in 2007, Faber endorsed heavy investing in the stock market, when the Fed began the artificial rally in March 2009, with the money printing and dollar debasement.  Then, he told his readers to SELL in July, 2011, just before the recent collapses, after the Fed temporarily stopped the paper money printing.

Faber has been right, again and again.  An article I've just quotes him as follows:

“The Federal Reserve is a very evil institution, in the sense that they punish decent people who have saved all their lives"

That really sums it up.  We savers cannot continue to save.  We are forced to become speculators, or we will lose everything we've worked for all our lives.  The best thing to do now, I think, is to wait until a full stock market collapse nears its trough, and then buy heavily.  I know that some on this board claim that they and people they know lost big money in the market.  However, that is because they were buying at the highs, on recommendations of corrupt stock brokerage houses from brokers who are pressured to sell that which the house wants to sell. 

The lesson to be taken is that when you go to Vegas, don't play the slot machines.  You are sure to lose because the game is rigged.  Instead, since you were once a serious saver, you should have the smarts to become a card counter, and go to play Blackjack ONLY where you, with your "card counting" skills can twist the corrupt environment to your own benefit.  This, of course, is a metaphor.  I do not actually endorse the idea of going to Vegas, but, when you invest in stocks (and I think we now have no choice), do not buy when your broker, Marketwatch, the Wall Street Journal and the other ****s of the financial world tell you to.  Buy after it collapses, and just hope beyond hope that it does collapse before the dollar itself collapses as a result of Federal Reserve debasement.

John #48, I appreciate the sincerity of your post.  But how do you know when the market has "collapsed."   Where's the bottom?  Some say it was at Dow 11,000, others say 10,000, or??   That's the issue for small investors.  I know many who bought well-known stocks all the way down in 08-09 and these stocks never recovered, some are now trading at sub-$1 per share.

Ok, great posts. I am do confused. Almost all my money is in CD's. Should I stay or should I go? Gold is going up, silver is moving. CD's are pulling in over 100k a year. But what happens when the six percenters come due. We are doomed

and you are worried why?

Figure it out, #51.

As the 6% CDs mature, the renewal rate is around 2 - 2.5%. 
Quite a drastic cut in interest income!

Being retired, no way will I be forced to invest my savings in the "Market".

I would rather go broke living off the principal than watching it vanish without a thing to show for it.

I'm with #53.  Someone tell me when it's "safe" to invest in the market, when we've hit "bottom" or when stocks are "low as they'll go."  I am 64 yrs. old, have many friends and relatives who lost 20%-25% of their retirement principal/life savings in the stock market over the last 36 months, and now have to deal with 2%-3% CD rates like the rest of us.  At least my principal is intact.

52 if 50 ie churning 100k pe ryear from cds this person needs this commentary like carter needs liver pills would say he has 3 loaves of bread under each arm and cries all the way to the bank the sky is not falling  

would rather be where 50 is than my state in life  retired at 57 and have run all the models spoken with the financial pundints and all indidcations are tha i will run out of dinero by 80  que sera sera

You gotta have some sympathy for someone with $100K in income in 6% CD's.  If they go down to 2%, you're down to $33 in income.  Not a pretty picture.  My in-laws have about $60K in CD income.  Their accountant estimated that it will drop to $27,500 soon.  They will then have to sell their small house and move into an apt.  These rates are hurting all.

This extremely low interest rate environment on savings must really be hurting a lot of savers, including myself.  Just look at all the comments this subject is generating.  Just goes to show our government caters to borrowers rather than fugal people who have lived within their means.  Up till now, anyway. 

I think what everybody needs to realize is that the goverment ie. Bankers finally has everyone and I mean everyone weather it be savers , stock investors,bond investors, ect. almost exactly where thay want us. The only way that it will ever change is to wipe out the entire corupt system , and unfortinuly that will never happen here because there are too many corupt individules involved.....I was around for 30.00 Gold,and up to 850.00 and back down to 200.00 and now $1900.00 where is Alan with his irrrational exurbantes..Gold will continue to rise ...but watch out when THAY want it to fall.....because after all thay control EVERYTHING...(sorry but the truth really does hurt)!

ps sorry about spelling

where is alan/

TO #61:

Alan Greenspan Biography : (Former) Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System Famous for : Being the Federal Reserve Chairman of America from 1987 through to 2006, for having the power to move markets, and for his term used to describe the stock market boom in the nineties; "Irrational Exuberance" Greenspan details : Born - March 6, 1926 - New York City, USA Lives - United States of America More Information : Alan Greenspan Biography - Alan Greenspan Memoir

hay 52 bite me

shore break thought you were history whats the point

no stocks what a piece of crap